BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 2

[Myoku]

Re: Question to Shishin's commentary to Case 2

An attainer's attaining that there is nothing separate to attain, no separate objective to attain by any separate attainer ... is the Great Attainment we attainers all strive for and may hopefully get to,

Thank very much you Jundo,
I'm back on track, for the moment
_()_
Myoku

[Rimon]

Re: BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 2

I really don't know.

Thank you for your questions, Jundo. I'll ponder about them, holding them in my arms like a small child, and see what happens

I also wonder: Did the Emperor Wu know that Bodhidharma didn't know?

Gassho

Rimon

[Thane]

Re: BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 2

Reverend Jundo wrote

On questions like this, you too should "Just Sit" for 9 years, then 9 years more, then 9 years more ... with emphasis not simply on the "sit" of "Just Sit", or the "9 years" of "9 years", but the "Just This" of "Just Sit". Then one may finally reach the reachless-stage of realizing that one was "Ready" all along.

Something like that.

Gassho, J


Many thanks Reverend Jundo _/l_

[jefftos]

Re: BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 2

Why? It would seem like there is no point if "no merit" and "no holiness", just "vast emptiness". Why bother ... why sit? Likewise, was he actually telling the Emperor not to do these good works, and that they really had no worth or merit?

Or, perhaps that "no merit ... emptiness no holiness" is the very reason to sit and donate ... and the greatest Holy Merit Fullness!?

Then, when Bodhidharma was asked "who stands before me," he replied "I don't know!"

Did that mean that Old B'dharma actually "just didn't have a clue", or ... for he already was surely a Great Master whose reputation proceeded him ... did this "I don't know" manifest a most profound Knowing? Maybe a Knowing, but without some pesky "I" in the way, no separate things to be known, no names and labels and other outside facts to hammer down ... just Not Knowing Knowing?

But then, if there was already actually Knowing ... why sit??If no 'I', why sit his ass down?

I've been sitting with and pondering these questions all week and I see a lot of wonderful answers in this thread, but so far every time I sit with these questions and after going through long and detailed explanations in my mind, the only thought that seems to jump out and grab me is this,

I don't know, back to the cushion.

Gassho,

Jeff

[alan.r]

Re: BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 2

Hi there - some interesting interpretations/responses here.

Reading over the Main Case again it struck me as pointing to the way in which the human mind
tries to arrive at knowledge/meaning/understanding.

Emperor Wu has already made some decisions - firstly, he's decided that the truth of buddhism is a holy truth - and
secondly that the ultimate meaning of this holy truth can be delivered in words.

These two assumptions are tainted by delusion.

Bodhidharma replies 'Vast emptiness. No holiness'

I agree with Andy - this reply is probably a concise reference/pointing to the absolute and the relative.

When Emperor Wu asks who stands before him - Bodhidharma chooses to reply in the absolute,
but Wu misses the point - so there can be no merging (common undrstanding).

In Wicks's notes he differentiates between understanding and creating an understanding. Emperor Wu
falls into the way of creating an understanding when he makes the assumption that buddhism is a holy truth.
When we create an understanding we live in the realm of dualistic thought. Unknowing - or 'don't know' releases
us into a more open, intuitive way of understanding.

I don't know if Bodhidharma sat facing the wall for nine years in a profound state of 'unknowing' but I like
the appreciatory verse,

'In solitude he sits cool at Shorin,
in silence the Right Decree's fully revealed.'

Gassho

Willow

Hi Willow. Yes! This is well said and is what I took from it too and clumsily tried to convey in a little poem. Wu is trying to understand the thing intellectually, but unknowing is open, completely open, boundless, beyond and beyond, the thinking mind not getting in the way and cluttering things up. Wu wants answers, answers, and therefore, he is closed to things as they are. How often I am Wu, though!

In any case, I wanted to answer Jundo's question as well. Activities that are richer when dropping all thought of reason/merit/goal. It seems to me all things richer when this merit is dropped: just jogging rather than trying to get in perfect shape, just cooking rather than trying to impress the company, just talking with someone rather than forcing a conversation in selfish ways, just being there with someone, just walking the dog, just swimming, just eating, just cleaning, just writing, just treeleafing, just sitting.

Gassho,
Alan

[RichardH]

Re: BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 2

It is Jundo's question that is intimate for me..

Could/can you still manage to diligently and sincerely pursue the activities nonetheless (like Bodhidharma so diligently sitting for so long) working toward its successful accomplishment?

Is this just "going with the flow"? I don't think so. Some things require the rousing of energy and inspiration on demand, placing this against that, and putting our backs into it. There are times when....in all honesty... denying that an outcome is deeply important to us, is just kidding ourselves. So can there still be that fully human passion ...that total involvement, and "Great Space Nothing Holy"...... at once ? That is what this is about for me, it has to be. It is all fine on the cushion, or on retreat where I just follow a schedule. But in a life of many responsibilities that must be met every day...



Gassho kojip.

[Ekai]

Re: BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 2

"Can you think of some activities in your life that would be/are richer when undertaken dropping completely all thought of reason or merit or goal or holiness/specialness to it? "

Simply spending quality time with my sons. When I let go of expectations of they should act, how we should play or how we should read a book and just be with them in the moment, the experience flows naturally. I feel our connection and love for each other more fully.

I have to admit it's overwhelming to read all of the posts but it's good practice.

Gassho,
Ekai

[Shokai]

Re: BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 2

Thank you Ekai for sharing this teaching; life trully is simple, isn't it

[Gary]

Re: BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 2

I have to admit it's overwhelming to read all of the posts but it's good practice.

Gassho,
Ekai

Thank you Ekai,
I agree, I'm learning to accept my current level of understanding.
I don't get it but it's OK.

Gassho
Gary

[Nenka]

Re: BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 2

Many of the things I do seem more meaningful when I stop worrying about the outcome or "getting somewhere" -- just working in the garden, or knitting something, or drawing, or sewing a rakusu :wink:

There's another side to this, too, when we talk about dropping ideas of certain things being special or "holy." I think Jundo expressed in well in another thread recently when he talked about changing his daughter's dirty diapers as something holy. Yeah, it kind of is! I think of unpleasant tasks that way more often, everyday life things like housework, dealing with certain family members, confronting my own mind theater. Nothing's holy, and yet everything is.

Gassho

Jen

[RichardH]

Re: BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 2

I have to admit it's overwhelming to read all of the posts but it's good practice.

Gassho,
Ekai

Thank you Ekai,
I agree, I'm learning to accept my current level of understanding.
I don't get it but it's OK.

Gassho
Gary

Hi Ekai and Gary. I don't know about anyone else, but as a long time Buddhist stumbler, I have gotten good at talking the talk.. In fact there is no shortage of "understanding". But it hasn't done much good. On this forum some people sound like they have a "deeper" understanding, some sound like they do not understand that much... some people sound like they have put down "understanding" and are just practicing well. I'm here to learn to put down my head full of understanding and accept guidance.... and support in practice. It isn't easy, because old habits die hard.

So.. I just hope you don't sell yourselves short because some people can talk the talk..


Gassho, kojip

[Ekai]

Re: BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 2

I have to admit it's overwhelming to read all of the posts but it's good practice.

Gassho,
Ekai

Thank you Ekai,
I agree, I'm learning to accept my current level of understanding.
I don't get it but it's OK.

Gassho
Gary

Hi Ekai and Gary. I don't know about anyone else, but as a long time Buddhist stumbler, I have gotten good at talking the talk.. In fact there is no shortage of "understanding". But it hasn't done much good. On this forum some people sound like they have a "deeper" understanding, some sound like they do not understand that much... some people sound like they have put down "understanding" and are just practicing well. I'm here to learn to put down my head full of understanding and accept guidance.... and support in practice. It isn't easy, because old habits die hard.

So.. I just hope you don't sell yourselves short because some people can talk the talk..


Gassho, kojip

Well, I actually meant that it is overwhelming to read through the posts time-wise and with life-work-family balance. Also, I spend a lot of time on the computer due to my career so after a while, my eyes start to hurt trying to read everything on the screen. But it's worth the effort, non-effort.

Gassho,
Ekai

[RichardH]

Re: BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 2

OK. I misunderstood the post. ... and was addressing Gary's statement about... "my current level of understanding".

Gassho.

[Ekai]

Re: BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 2

OK. I misunderstood the post. ... and was addressing Gary's statement about... "my current level of understanding".

Gassho.

I guess it really must be overwhelming :lol: !

Thanks for your support and practice.

Gassho,
Ekai

[Heisoku]

Re: BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 2

Bodhidharm was lucky, Benka was not. Bodhidharma went on to practice for nine years. Did the Emporer get the treasure in the end?
In some translations Bodhidharma's response is 'No idea'. When we are one who are we? The child we are with, the book we are reading, the kesa being sewn or even just no idea.
No idea, NO PROBLEM !