BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 1

[Jundo]

Re: BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 1

Words and Buddhist Ideas alone are not barriers!

Dogen ... the master wordsmith ... held well expressed language to be the very essence of Buddhist Truths. For Dogen, suchness was not a matter of rejecting or embracing silence or speaking (there are right moments for each) ... but of how what is said, the well turned and turning phrase. The right words and Buddhist ideas do not simply describe Truth, but dance Truth itself, are Truth Dancing.

Properly Illuminated words are not simply 'the finger pointing at the moon which cannot be described in words'. Enlightened words are the Very Moonlight.

Open any page of Shobogeno, sentence by rich sentence, and one realizes that Dogen did not see words as an obstruction ... but only words of ignorance as obstructing, and Wise Words As Realization Realizing!

Zen Teacher David Loy talks about this, quoting the great Dogenologist Prof. Hee-Jin Kim ...

Dogen's revaluation of commonplace Buddhist metaphors in particular leaves us no doubt about his understanding of language .... Concepts, metaphors, parables, and so forth are not just instrumental, convenient means to communicate truth, for they themselves manifest the truth-or rather, since that is still too dualistic, they themselves are the truth that we need to realize. "Metaphor in Dogen's sense is not that which points to something other than itself, but that in which something realizes itself," summarizes Kim. "In short, the symbol is not a means to edification but an end in itself-the workings of ultimate truth." As Dogen himself puts it in the Muchu-setsumu ... : "The Buddha-dharma, even if it is a metaphor, is ultimate reality." If I do not try to get some graspable truth from the metaphor, it can be a way my mind consummates itself: although symbols can be redeemed only by mind, the mind does not function in a vacuum but is activated by-or as-symbols.

In the Sansuikyo fascicle, Dogen criticizes those who have only an instrumentalist view of language and who think that koans are simply nonsensical ways to cut off thought: "How pitiable are they who are unaware that discriminating thought is words and phrases, and that words and phrases liberate discriminating thought." What a challenge to the traditional Buddhist dualism between language and reality: the goal is not to eliminate concepts but to liberate them! Despite their problematical aspects, "words are not essentially different from things, events, or beings-all 'alive' in Dogen's thought."

... [Dogen] shows us that words and metaphors can be understood not just as instrumentally trying to grasp and convey truth (and therefore dualistically interfering with our realization of some truth that transcends words), but as being the truth-that is, as being one of the many ways that Buddha-nature is. To the many dualisms that Nagarjuna deconstructs, then, Dogen explicitly adds one more: he denies the dualism between language and the world. If we are the ones who dualize, why blame the victims? A birdsong, a temple bell ringing, a flower blooming, and Dogen's transpositions, too, blossoming for us as we read them: if we do not dualize between world and word, then we can experience the Buddha-dharma-our own "empty" nature-presencing and playing in each.
http://www.thezensite.com/ZenEssays/Dog ... gainst.htm

Gassho, J

[Rich]

Re: BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 1

Thanks Jundo, for pointing this out.

[RichardH]

Re: BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 1

Hi Jundo.. could you please have a word for this?....

Suchness... isness.. not-two.. is non-dukkha. For a long time for me there was only two-ness.. and that two-ness is Dukkha.. dissatisfaction.. It is the two-ness of wanting this moment to be other than it is. When caught up in that dukkha... that two-ness, talk of "suchness" is just talk. I struggled like a mule for years before finally being like Oscar Wilde on his deathbed.. looking at the ugly wallpaper.. and saying 'one of us has to go".... and then there was non-dukkha.. and not-two... or as Taigu says in his talks on the oxherding pictures.. no "watcher". So no watcher.. no one to see my own funeral. But, of course ..the watcher.... and wanting this moment to be other than it is.. on at least some subtle level, comes back, and there is dukkha... again. and that's the way it goes. So my question is about integrating both ...suchness, and non-dukkha, and suchness effectively eclipsed by greed hatred and delusion.... how to integrate both Dukkha and non-dukkha? ...and just understanding they are one nature is of little use when greed hatred and delusion hold sway. It is little more than blessing the marriage after the elopement. This koan seems to speak to realizing a simpler experiential integration.. apart from just an acknowledgement. .. There is a hint.. a flash.. but I am too brutish... grrrrrrr.

Gassho Kojip.

[alan.r]

Re: BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 1

Hi Jundo.. could you please have a word for this?....

Suchness... isness.. not-two.. is non-dukkha. For a long time for me there was only two-ness.. and that two-ness is Dukkha.. dissatisfaction.. It is the two-ness of wanting this moment to be other than it is. When caught up in that dukkha... that two-ness, talk of "suchness" is just talk. I struggled like a mule for years before finally being like Oscar Wilde on his deathbed.. looking at the ugly wallpaper.. and saying 'one of us has to go".... and then there was non-dukkha.. and not-two... or as Taigu says in his talks on the oxherding pictures.. no "watcher". So no watcher.. no one to see my own funeral. But, of course ..the watcher.... and wanting this moment to be other than it is.. on at least some subtle level, comes back, and there is dukkha... again. and that's the way it goes. So my question is about integrating both ...suchness, and non-dukkha, and suchness effectively eclipsed by greed hatred and delusion.... how to integrate both Dukkha and non-dukkha? ...and just understanding they are one nature is of little use when greed hatred and delusion hold sway. It is little more than blessing the marriage after the elopement. This koan seems to speak to realizing a simpler experiential integration.. apart from just an acknowledgement. .. There is a hint.. a flash.. but I am too brutish... grrrrrrr.

Gassho Kojip.

Hi Kojip,

I know you're asking Jundo, but I thought I'd chime in. I agree, intellectually understanding that good and bad are two faces of the same coin is somewhat worthless. Is this your question? How does intellectually understand of this truth matter/help? I don't know, I'm asking; I can't quite parse this question. What does simpler experiential integration mean? Simpler than what? I'm sure Jundo's words will be better, but here is Shunryu Suzuki, a passage I've been rereading lately and which seems to pertain to this:

We should find perfect existence through imperfect existence. We should find perfection in imperfection. For us, complete perfection is not different from imperfection We should find the truth in this world, through our difficulties, through our suffering. This is the basic teaching of Buddhism. Pleasure is not different from difficulty. Good is not different from bad. Bad is good; good is bad. They are two sides of the same coin. That is right understanding of practice, and the right understanding of our life. So to find pleasure in suffering is the only way to accept of the truth of transiency This is the basic teaching of how to live in this world. Whatever you may feel about it, you have to accept it.

-Zen Mind, Begginer's Mind 92.

When you say, suffering is all gone, whose suffering has disappeared?

When you say, suffering has come back, whose suffering has returned?

Anyway, darkness into darkness.

Gassho,
Alan

[RichardH]

Re: BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 1

We should find perfect existence through imperfect existence. We should find perfection in imperfection. For us, complete perfection is not different from imperfection We should find the truth in this world, through our difficulties, through our suffering. This is the basic teaching of Buddhism. Pleasure is not different from difficulty. Good is not different from bad. Bad is good; good is bad. They are two sides of the same coin. That is right understanding of practice, and the right understanding of our life. So to find pleasure in suffering is the only way to accept of the truth of transiency This is the basic teaching of how to live in this world. Whatever you may feel about it, you have to accept it.

This still sounds like getting something to me. "Acceptance" is going from here to there. Acceptance as acceptance, and non-acceptance as non-acceptance.. ....that is not going from here to there. That is this thing.

When you say, suffering is all gone, whose suffering has disappeared?

When you say, suffering has come back, whose suffering has returned?

Suffering as in back pain ?.... sure. But Dukkha.. is the lived sense (illusory or not) of 'I" apart... there is no such thing as realized no-self dukkha. Dukkha is dukkha.. and non-dukkha is non-dukkha. that is the wall. I do not expect an answer here. Just .. being up against that wall where there is no going from here to there.

Dukkha is dukkha, non-dukkha is non-dukkha.... Nirvana is not other than Samsara... but nirvana is nirvana.. and samsara is samsara. That is where this koan leaves me...

it's not as fussy a matter as it sounds.. it is very direct for me.


gassho. kojip

[Jundo]

Re: BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 1

Hi Jundo.. could you please have a word for this?....

Suchness... isness.. not-two.. is non-dukkha. For a long time for me there was only two-ness.. and that two-ness is Dukkha.. dissatisfaction.. It is the two-ness of wanting this moment to be other than it is. ... So my question is about integrating both ...suchness, and non-dukkha, and suchness effectively eclipsed by greed hatred and delusion.... how to integrate both Dukkha and non-dukkha? ...and just understanding they are one nature is of little use when greed hatred and delusion hold sway.

Ah, two sides of the no sided coin ... samsara is nirvana, nirvana precisely samsara.

That's why this is Practice-Realization ... just like painting. You are an artist. Did you learn to paint in a day? Have you actually gotten better at it over the years even though each painting is one by one?

So, here is how I live this in life.

In Zazen, one experiences (A) a realm with no thought of this or that, something to add or take away, me and you ... free of conflict, flowing, whole.

And then there is (B) day to day messy life, places to go and people to see, always something in need of doing or fixing or which I wish were otherwise than what is, me bumping into you, frictions great and small, a million sometimes beautiful and sometimes horribly ugly pieces ... flowers and weeds, peace and war.

The state of wholeness (A) is lovely ... but a mistake to think that only such is freedom from Dukkha. In turn (B) is Dukkha, but it is a mistake to think it is or need only be experienced so.

So, for the experienced Zen practitioner, it is possible to learn to "flip a switch" to move mentally and physically, at will at various moments in life, between (A) and (B). Shikantaza Zazen is the vehicle that teaches us this skill. When (B) gets too hectic, ugly, fearful or any time ... switch to (A). We learn this trick.

However, in Shikantaza, one also learns another view and taste (C) ... (or better said in 'Zen Speak', Not-A-Not-B ) ... where (A) is shining right through and through (B) like the white, open, whole canvas that holds all that is painted upon it. As (A) shines in silent illumination, (B) becomes translucent ... there is a Peace of One Piece which holds all the million broken pieces of life. So, more and more one might experience, for example, a "messy life" simultaneously lit by a certain Purity which comes from dropping all thought of clean, dirty, pure or impure ... places to go and people to see, simultaneously with the experience of no place in need of going and constant total arrival ... working to make things better, stop the war and cure the diseases, even while tasting that things are just as they are with nothing to add or take away ... you and me and frictions, simultaneously free of you and me and frictions ... a Beauty and Wholeness that somehow sweeps up and holds both the beautiful and ugly ... a One Piece Peace that is peace and war and all the broken pieces ... ALL AT ONCE, AS ONE.

The canvas is there, but needs the painting to manifest life. The painting of beauty and ugliness is there, always the canvas holding all together. How to come and experience this more and more? Zazen ... Painting life, Practice.

Something like that. Pardon these very imprecise words.

To quote again Suzuki Roshi ....

We should find perfect existence through imperfect existence. We should find perfection in imperfection. For us, complete perfection is not different from imperfection We should find the truth in this world, through our difficulties, through our suffering. This is the basic teaching of Buddhism. Pleasure is not different from difficulty. Good is not different from bad. Bad is good; good is bad. They are two sides of the same coin.

-Zen Mind, Begginer's Mind 92.

Gassho, J

PS - For those not familiar with the term "Dukkha" ... look here ...

No one English word captures the full depth and range of the Pali term, Dukkha. It is sometimes rendered as “suffering,” as in “life is suffering.” But perhaps it’s better expressed as “dissatisfaction,” “anxiety,” “disappointment,” “unease at perfection,” or “frustration” — terms that wonderfully convey a subtlety of meaning.

In a nutshell, your “self” wishes this world to be X, yet this world is not X. The mental state that may result to the “self” from this disparity is Dukkha.

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=2942

[RichardH]

Re: BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 1

Those are very precise words, Jundo. The perfect words in fact. Thank you.

Gassho, Kojip.

[Koshin]

Re: BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 1

Thank you Jundo, great way to explain this

Gassho

[Omoi Otoshi]

BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 1

Thank you Jundo,
I liked that explanation very much.

Gassho,
Pontus

[Shokai]

Re: BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 1

Thank you Jundo, Arthur Murray could not have put it better

[Shokai]

Re: BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 1

But of course, you realize Ginger Rogers could do it backwards and in high heels :lol:

[TomB]

Re: BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 1

......................gassho...................... ....

Tom

[Taigu]

Re: BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 1

what kills the watcher
is the beauty
of it all


gassho


T.

[Taigu]

Re: BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 1

Ginger Rogers is so...


gassho


T.

[Dosho]

Re: BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 1

Can you describe a problem or incident in your life, now or in the past ... a situation that is/was very hard ... that your head was filled with thoughts and emotions about, and that you resisted or hated very much ... but would have/did/might experience very differently by just being "without words", just allowing and not fighting?

Yes, I can think of a few situations like that...EVERY DAY! The practice of shikantaza has allowed me to directly engage this "without words" approach and it has had amazing results in my life, but by trying to do absolutely nothing but sit. It was very hard for awhile and still is some days...to let thoughts drift in and out without trying to engage them, fix them, or find the perfect solution. But I encounter this type of thinking all the time and in certain situations it is very hard to deal with, especially during recent struggles with depression. My mind tries to figure out how to fix the depression rather than to just be with it...but does that mean I don't go to a doctor and (in my case) take medications to help? Of course not! I did go and do take meds to help. To try to fix them is wrong thinking...to suffer and not seek medical assistance is also the wrong view (for me....others may differ)...all while sitting and trying to achieve nothing. The thoughts, yes they are overwhelming, but I do not have to engage them and they are not "me". The silence is truly golden, but I don't mean the thoughts go away...they often don't...I mean the silence of not responding to them as I practice shikantaza. Nothingness...wholeness...all at once.

Gassho,
Dosho