The Platform Sutra: Sections 21-23 and commentary, p158-166 (164-172 on Kindle)

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  • Kokuu
    Dharma Transmitted Priest
    • Nov 2012
    • 7078

    The Platform Sutra: Sections 21-23 and commentary, p158-166 (164-172 on Kindle)

    Dear all

    This week we will look at sections 21-23 of the sutra, ending Huineng's bestowal of the formless precepts.

    In section 21 Huineng asks his audience to chant the four bodhisattva vows. This sutra was written in the 7th or 8th century but 1200 years later, the form of these vows remains the same. He goes on to explain precisely what each line of the vow means based on the perfection of wisdom teachings that are the underlying theme of the sutra.
    Red Pine adds to this saying that through a daily recitation of these vows we are in fact creating the realisation and transformation bodies of a buddha, and realising our lack of separation from the dharma body.

    Section 22’s use of the Verse of Atonement is also very familiar, although it is noticeable that Huineng has three verses for separate atonement of words, thoughts and acts produced by delusion, ignorance and envy, whereas we have greed, anger and ignorance all in one verse now.

    Huineng defines repentance as “to be aware of past misdeeds and not to commit them again for the rest of your life.”

    In section 23, Huineng leads his audience in the recitation of the three refuges, although interestingly he already did this in one way in section 20. He goes on to explain that the three treasures refer to our own nature with the buddha being enlightenment (or our original self/buddha nature), the dharma is the truth itself and the sangha is purity.

    Huineng says that only to take refuge in the external three treasures is wrong and we need to understand the internal aspects for it to have any meaning. Where can we find the buddha except within ourselves through seeing the essential nature of our own mind.

    Questions
    1. In regard to the bodhisattva vows, what effect (if any) do you notice they have on both as you chant them, and cumulatively over time?
    2. How do you view going for refuge? Is this something you do at all? (I ask this as during my time in the Tibetan traditions, going for refuge was done daily, or multiple times a day, and that is more absent in Zen, mostly appearing as part of the precepts, and even then we tend to focus more on the other 13 parts)

    Wishing you all a good week. Please do come to the retreat on Saturday if you can!

    Gassho
    Kokuu
    -sattoday/lah-
  • Chikyou
    Member
    • May 2022
    • 734

    #2
    1. In regard to the bodhisattva vows, what effect (if any) do you notice they have on both as you chant them, and cumulatively over time?
    I can’t say for sure that I notice any direct effect (that can be attributed to the vows specifically and not to practice in general, which I could speak about at length.) The vows serve as a daily reminder of why I’m doing this - not for me specifically, but for every sentient being. It takes me out of the headspace of thinking I’m doing this solely for my own benefit and reminds me that it’s for everyone and every being.
    1. How do you view going for refuge? Is this something you do at all? (I ask this as during my time in the Tibetan traditions, going for refuge was done daily, or multiple times a day, and that is more absent in Zen, mostly appearing as part of the precepts, and even then we tend to focus more on the other 13 parts)
    I recite the Three Refuges as part of my daily practice and I guess I see my practice itself as a sort of refuge from the craziness of daily life. “Everything’s an overwhelming mess but for the moment, right now, I get to be still”. (Hmm. I’m feeling inspired now to find time in the evenings to practice as well).

    Gassho,
    SatLah
    Chikyō
    Chikyō 知鏡
    (Wisdom Mirror)
    They/Them

    Comment

    • Hokuu
      Member
      • Apr 2023
      • 98

      #3
      In regard to the bodhisattva vows, what effect (if any) do you notice they have on both as you chant them, and cumulatively over time?
      No effect while chanting. Over time, I'm painfully aware of how I'm not following the vows. Even more painful is to realize how little I care, even when I want to care.

      How do you view going for refuge? Is this something you do at all? (I ask this as during my time in the Tibetan traditions, going for refuge was done daily, or multiple times a day, and that is more absent in Zen, mostly appearing as part of the precepts, and even then we tend to focus more on the other 13 parts)
      I love this practice. It reminds me that even in a religion where I (and nobody else) am responsible for my liberation, I'm still looking for refuge/help/support in Buddha, Dharma, and Sangha. I do the practice almost daily.

      Gassho
      Hokuu
      satlah
      歩空​ (Hokuu)
      歩 = Walk / 空 = Sky (or Emptiness)
      "Moving through life with the freedom of walking through open sky"

      Comment

      • Kokuu
        Dharma Transmitted Priest
        • Nov 2012
        • 7078

        #4
        No effect while chanting. Over time, I'm painfully aware of how I'm not following the vows. Even more painful is to realize how little I care, even when I want to care.
        Wanting to care is a good place to start, Hokuu

        Comment

        • Onsho
          Member
          • Aug 2022
          • 196

          #5
          Kokuu, I would like to approach this with curiosity. Could the term Hinayana be seen as derogatory? Are terms like shravaka and pratyeka still socially acceptable?

          I would like to be confident in this termanology before storing it away, I would hate to accidentally disparage the Dharma.

          Gassho
          Onsho
          satlah

          Comment

          • Onsho
            Member
            • Aug 2022
            • 196

            #6
            Originally posted by Chikyou
            (Hmm. I’m feeling inspired now to find time in the evenings to practice as well).
            I sit at 9:30pm sun-thursday, same with a few people here. Feel free to drop in for any amount of time

            Gassho, Onsho

            Comment

            • Hosui
              Member
              • Sep 2024
              • 72

              #7
              Standing at Arrivals at Heathrow airport recently, waiting for my wife and daughter to land from a flight, it seemed appropriate to recite the bodhisattva vows whilst expectantly scanning the endless faces coming through the gate. Since doing that it’s dawned on me that in the decades I’ve been chanting these vows I’ve never appreciated the significance of the “numberless,” “countless,” “limitless,” and “transcendent” qualifying suffix to each vow, believing them to be mere hyperbole - until now. Duh and double-duh! As Jundo roshi has taught us, whilst riffing on Dogen zenji’s Being-Time, “It’s good to know that each moment of our lives is the life of the universe…” (Dance, p123). Hearing that was the kick up the jacksie I needed. Chanting those vows now or 40 years ago or 40 years hence (let’s say 25) is all part of the universal oneness that’s ‘practice-realisation,’ which explains how even those pesky qualifiers aren’t big enough!

              As for taking refuge, this has become the head-slapping moment from last week’s reading. I’m gonna do my best to stop dividing so-called reality into “this” and “that” and take refuge instead in the immediate moment, thereby giving me a chance of living that universal oneness here and now.

              ​Gassho
              Hosui
              sat/lah today

              Comment

              • Kokuu
                Dharma Transmitted Priest
                • Nov 2012
                • 7078

                #8
                Originally posted by Onsho
                Kokuu, I would like to approach this with curiosity. Could the term Hinayana be seen as derogatory? Are terms like shravaka and pratyeka still socially acceptable?

                I would like to be confident in this termanology before storing it away, I would hate to accidentally disparage the Dharma.
                Good question, Onsho.

                I personally dislike the use of Hinayana, which does translate as 'lesser or small vehicle' and prefer to substitute 'Theravada' (for the contemporary tradition based on the Pali Canon) or 'South Asian Buddhism'. I know my friend Sekishi prefers 'Source Buddhism'. 'Early Buddhism' has also been suggested but we know that the development of Mahayana Buddhism occurred earlier than previously thought and in parallel with other traditions so whether that is accurate or not could be debated. Most people seem to understand its meaning though.

                I must admit I haven't given much thought to shravaka and pratyeka but Śrāvaka means 'disciple' which seems fine, even if the Mahayana usage does often seem to refer to a lesser kind of attainment (as with Arahant). Pratyekabuddha, as you probably know, refers to someone who achieves awakening as a solitary practitioner. Whether that is a reasonable use or not I really don't know.

                Any thoughts Jundo

                Gassho
                Kokuu
                -sattoday/lah-

                Comment

                • Onsho
                  Member
                  • Aug 2022
                  • 196

                  #9
                  In regard to the bodhisattva vows, what effect (if any) do you notice they have on both as you chant them, and cumulatively over time?

                  This is difficult to put into words, but ill give it a shot. Its like an attitude reset. It puts me in an empty/open head space. It brings my attention to this abstract intimacy. Its a place where I be with the relationship of action/intent and, the pervading force that turns the wheel without hindrance. It edits “I vow to save all sentient being, though beings numberless” down to just “saving sentient beings” if I stop to notice it. Chanting anything will do this to me easily, I’m taken quickly. I see why recitation is a major part of Buddhism.


                  How do you view going for refuge? Is this something you do at all?

                  Going for refuge is an everyday thing. We know the proverbs of not swimming in the water but floating to get to the same place, its that for me. When I catch myself getting over stimulated, have too many balls up in the air or performing unnecessary mental gymnastics, I stop swimming. Immediately. I will clap my hands in gassho in front of me and slowly trace from my forehead to the tip of my nose with my thumbs, taking the biggest in breath I can. Hold it for a moment and repeat “om mani padme hung” till my lungs are empty and rest at the bottom of the breath. Im now cured. I start again.

                  Gassho
                  Onsho
                  satlah


                  Comment

                  • Chikyou
                    Member
                    • May 2022
                    • 734

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Onsho

                    Going for refuge is an everyday thing. We know the proverbs of not swimming in the water but floating to get to the same place, its that for me. When I catch myself getting over stimulated, have too many balls up in the air or performing unnecessary mental gymnastics, I stop swimming. Immediately. I will clap my hands in gassho in front of me and slowly trace from my forehead to the tip of my nose with my thumbs, taking the biggest in breath I can. Hold it for a moment and repeat “om mani padme hung” till my lungs are empty and rest at the bottom of the breath. Im now cured. I start again.

                    Gassho
                    Onsho
                    satlah

                    This is a lovely practice. I needed something like this yesterday, as I got ambushed at work before I even had a chance to finish checking my email (it’s amazing how that sets a tone for the entire day) and I felt like I couldn’t finish a single simple task without being pulled away for something else. I recognized that I was in a bad mood and that I should be able to redirect and change my attitude but as soon as I did, not 30 seconds later I was back to being irritable again.

                    Gassho,
                    SatLah
                    Chikyō
                    Chikyō 知鏡
                    (Wisdom Mirror)
                    They/Them

                    Comment

                    • Taigen
                      Member
                      • Jan 2024
                      • 115

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Kokuu
                      Questions
                      1. In regard to the bodhisattva vows, what effect (if any) do you notice they have on both as you chant them, and cumulatively over time?
                      2. How do you view going for refuge? Is this something you do at all? (I ask this as during my time in the Tibetan traditions, going for refuge was done daily, or multiple times a day, and that is more absent in Zen, mostly appearing as part of the precepts, and even then we tend to focus more on the other 13 parts)
                      1. The Bodhisattva vows are a deep aspiration for me, a powerful reminder of both the eternal process of practice, and the profundity of the path we undertake in sitting. They did not come into my study much before joining Treeleaf but I am ever grateful to have discovered them.
                      2. I sometimes take refuge as a mantra, similar to the rakusu preparation. Especially in times of higher anxiety, something to focus the attention on can be helpful in finding that calm, grounded space. Otherwise, I think it feels to me like the baptismal liturgy in Christianity, something that is done once as a point of entry. While one can certainly be re-baptized, I think restating it over and over out loud can rob it of some of its profundity. Some things are powerful because we DON'T do them all the time, like Jundo ending Rohatsu with the Fukanzazengi.

                      Gassho,
                      Taigen
                      SatLah

                      Comment

                      • Tairin
                        Member
                        • Feb 2016
                        • 3010

                        #12
                        • In regard to the bodhisattva vows, what effect (if any) do you notice they have on both as you chant them, and cumulatively over time?
                        Well it may sound obvious but by chanting the vows I am reminded of my commitments to this path as a whole and my adoption of it as integral to my life.
                        • How do you view going for refuge? Is this something you do at all?
                        Probably like many Westerners new to Zen the concept of refuge was one I struggled with until we did the Precepts studies and I read this by Pat Phalen (https://chzc.org/Precepts2.htm)

                        One way to practice taking refuge is to look at what we actually take refuge in. We might find that we take refuge in eating, drinking coffee, smoking cigarettes, watching television, or in our inner dialog or storyline, in our anger or self-justification. By looking at where we turn for relief, we can get a sense for how we distract ourselves and how we can come back.
                        Turning the idea of refuge around to show some undesirable refuges really brought it concept home for me.

                        So yes! I take refuge in the Buddha. I take refuge in the Dharma. I take refuge in the Sangha.


                        Tairin
                        sat today and lah
                        泰林 - Tai Rin - Peaceful Woods

                        Comment

                        • Choujou
                          Member
                          • Apr 2024
                          • 408

                          #13
                          Questions
                          1. In regard to the bodhisattva vows, what effect (if any) do you notice they have on both as you chant them, and cumulatively over time?
                          2. How do you view going for refuge? Is this something you do at all? (I ask this as during my time in the Tibetan traditions, going for refuge was done daily, or multiple times a day, and that is more absent in Zen, mostly appearing as part of the precepts, and even then we tend to focus more on the other 13 parts)
                          1. When I chant the vows, in my mind I am recommitting myself to becoming a bodhisattva. I feel a sense of peace come over me, and it makes me consider my thoughts and actions during the day and whether they align with the precepts and vows. I then use my body of transformation to change myself for the better, and move myself closer to truth and wisdom.

                          2. for me, taking refuge means devotion. I am devoted to Buddha, Dharma, and Sangha… which really means truth, everything, and everyone. It is a reminder to me that our practice is internal, yes, but also extends to all beings, all places… all of life. This is what we serve… all of life.

                          Gassho,
                          Choujou

                          sat/lah today

                          Comment

                          • Kokuu
                            Dharma Transmitted Priest
                            • Nov 2012
                            • 7078

                            #14
                            As usual, thank you all for your beautiful and thoughtful responses. I may have said before but usually these book read-alongs start off with many people and eventually tail off to two or three people commenting so it is really gratifying to have you all continuing to engage with this text week after week. However, if due to busyness or anything else you miss a week of responding, just come back to the next one or one after.

                            The Bodhisattva vows are definitely a reminder of why we practice and, as some of you have said, especially in the vastness of the universe or even just our visible world at airports, in the city, the forest or anywhere else! Sometimes we (or at least I) can chant these things almost automatically but I think even then by doing that it has an effect on us through what we are voing to do. For me it is both energising, in terms of giving a purpose to life and practice, and also humbling, because of the vastness of life and the task at hand.

                            Refuge seems to work similarly, as most of you are saying, in providing both a still point and direction.

                            I like what Tairin says:

                            Turning the idea of refuge around to show some undesirable refuges really brought it concept home for me.
                            I think that is entirely right and when I have spoken about this before I say that pretty much everyone takes refuge in something, whether it is money, family, a political way of thinking or something else. In the Pali Canon, the Buddha also includes false religions which lead people astray, by which he largely seems to mean those which promise control over life by offering sacrifices.

                            Taking refuge in reality itself, as we do in the dharma and our own budha nature, is almost a paradoxical refuge - we take refuge but not in anything fixed, unchanging or definite. Be recognising that anything looking like that is a fake refuge, we free ourselves from delusions of control and instead experience life just as it is.

                            The new week's post is up now and I hope you all enjoy the next sections. I am getting a huge amount from going over this material more slowly.

                            Gassho
                            Kokuu
                            -sattoday/lah-

                            Comment

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