How to attain enlightenment ...

[Jika]

I am often too tired or brain-fried

Like.

Thank you all.
I'll be around.

Gassho,
Jika
#sattoday

[Washin]

Anyone in for a "Sitting for Dummies"-group?

Count me in as well

Gassho
Washin
st

[Ishin]

Hi all,

sorry to interfere with Ishin's observation.

Anyone in for a "Sitting for Dummies"-group?

Gassho,
Jika
#sattoday

I observed something? Pretty sure I already am in the sitting for Dummies group.

Jika, I think Jundo's post ( if I might paraphrase in a sad attempt to explain) encourages us to the action, but not JUST sitting either. Living enlightenment, enlightened actions, what we do off the cushion is important too. How much worse for us who have deep understanding of the Dharma and still act like jerks. I think you are far from "failing" my friend.

Gassho
Ishin

#Sat Today

[Ishin]

Ishin, I grok your post. Lol. I was drawn to Zen in my 20's because I suffered and my quest to end suffering led me there, along with curiosity and the tendency to "think outside the box." But it was as you describe, "intellectual seeking," and I was convinced that there was an intellectual answer to every question for a long time. And I was definitely "wildly insecure about losing the self," as you put it... it didn't seem possible to let go of all those personal goals for happiness, comfort, success! It took over 20 years of on-off sitting and off-the-cushion cultivation of mindfulness to finally result in the realization that This Was It, meaning my butt on the cushion, not reading another Zen book or having another philosophical discussion with myself or others. Treeleaf has reinforced this wonderfully, not in the least because for every intellectual discussion thread posted, there's usually a member that will admonish us to "throw it all away and just sit."

Gassho,
Jakuden
SatToday

Thank you Jakuden. I confess my need for intellectual stimulation forced me to google "grok".

Gassho
Ishin
#Sat Today

[Ishin]

There is also this fact: An aspect of our practice is to encounter and embody such in which there are no "two sides", no "topic", and each and all are what it are. How can one "debate" about "that" when no "this," when debate and "sides" and debaters is impossible? Thus, no "enlightenment" in contrast to "ignorance" is possible too.

All this-thatless simultaneously "not one not two" and intimately whole with our world of sides and right/wrong and ideas and opinions and debates and "me and you" debaters and this and that.

If we must say something to express this reality, it cannot neglect to somehow (it ain't easy!) capture all of the above reality(s) at once, as one.

As well, this "Practice-Enlightenment" is something to be embodied, lived and breathed. So, that is much more the field of "Enlightenment" action than some debate room.

To realize (in the bones) and realize (in how we make it "real" in life) is "Enlightenment" in my book.

That is the problem with overly intellectual approaches to expressing Zen Truth(s).

Gassho, J

SatToday

You raise an excellent point/ non-point!

Gassho
Ishin
#Sat Today

[Zenmei]

There seems to me, to be something about Zen, that encourages or attracts intellectualism.

Zen is a venus flytrap. It looks like a riddle, so those of us who are attached to mind are drawn in. We suffer when we can't think our way to the answer. It doesn't yield to our well-honed problem-solving techniques, but we keep trying. For those of us who have constructed our "selves" around our thoughts, put our egos into our nimble thinking, we feel like we need to think our way to the answer. Many of us give up when we start to glimpse the truth that it's impossible to think your way to the heart of Zen. We're afraid of losing our selves. If I'm not the smartest guy in the room then who am I? Zen is stupid. What do you mean there is no "smartest" or "room" or "I"? That's nonsense. Our brains try to make sense of things. It's just one of the things that brains do whether we like it or not.
Also Zen's just fun to think about. Insights into the true nature of reality? The deepest inner workings of our minds? How to connect with other beings in a real way? It's like brain candy. There's something there for every kind of thinker. Or there's the illusion that something's there. I don't know. I don't think there's anything wrong with enjoying the study and speculation, as long as we see it for the mental masturbation it often is, and don't cling to it or believe that it's what's going to get us there (no-where).

Gassho,
Dudley
#SatDownToWatchASitALongWithJundoAndEndedUpThinkin gAboutThinkingForHalfAnHour

[Geika]

Over thinking my way to the "answer to the riddle of Zen" reminds me of taming the ox. There's no need to force thinking or non-thinking because if we keep up the practice, eventually we may know how to handle the ox without needing to lay a hand on it.

Gassho, sat today

[Mp]

Over thinking my way to the "answer to the riddle of Zen" reminds me of taming the ox. There's no need to force thinking or non-thinking because if we keep up the practice, eventually we may know how to handle the ox without needing to lay a hand on it.

Gassho, sat today

Nice!

Gassho
Shingen

s@today

[Jundo]

Over thinking my way to the "answer to the riddle of Zen" reminds me of taming the ox. There's no need to force thinking or non-thinking because if we keep up the practice, eventually we may know how to handle the ox without needing to lay a hand on it.

Gassho, sat today

[Tai Shi]

So I said I have pain, and so what--sit--put the end to my sitting cushion (and they make one for chairs--a Buddha cushion!) I sit--I look for others to sit with, and mostly I just sit, now I am reading two books Jundo suggested--more I want to read, but basically I wish to cut through my narcissism, sit, know a little of interbeing, and a little of the cloud, earth, human, animal coexistence. So I find sometimes I don't want to sit, and on those days 15 min. Other days more, and I listen to videos about clouds, form, sitting; these are helpful when I sit, and I've been turning out for some of the Zazenkai, feel connected when I do, sit with others on hang out when I can find them, and mostly I sit alone at my homemade alter, pay homage to a man who 2500 years ago found compassion, and other stuff I'm just beginning to get. And mostly, when I have my mouth open, I comment, and I sit alone.

Tai Shi
std
Gassho

[Timchenko_Oleg]

[Jundo]

Huh, this old post, Oleg ... written years ago ... I am very stubborn, and I would not change one word even now.

[Tosei]

I had missed this. On reading this morning, a crack appeared.

Three deep bows, Jundo.

sat

[Timchenko_Oleg]

[JohnS]

I awoke this morning perturbed in mind, and came here to search for something that would ease the questions running in my head. I found this. Deepest bow, Jundo, deepest bow. This was this medicine my mind needed right now. I am beyond grateful for you and Treeleaf.

Gassho

John

SatToday