SIT-A-LONG with JUNDO: Xin Xin Ming - (II)

[Seimyo]

As always, thank you Jundo.

Nice shirt btw.

Gassho.
Seimyo

[Genshin]

Thanks Jundo.

Gassho,
Matt

[Myozan Kodo]

Thanks Jundo. Pure Treeleaf.
Gassho
Myozan

PS: Buddhas have this magical power: feeling no cold! Even when wearing just a t-shirt in January!

[Mp]

Wonderful teaching Jundo, many thanks.

Gassho
Shingen

[Kaishin]

Thank you
Gassho, Kaishin

[Koshin]

Thank you, as always, a good teaching. Moon Face, Sun Face, it´s the same

Gassho

[Jiken]

Gassho,

Daido

[Jundo]

A received a couple of comments asking if Zazen will cure depression, or whether I am recommending to just "sit with" depression and not seek treatment.

I do think that any of us, any human being, is subject to depressed times, times of worry or the like, and it is not a particular concern if it just passes through for a few days. HOWEVER, if something is truly lingering, hurtful and debilitating, that is a very different story. SEEK HELP! I usually write this ...

--------------------------------

Our emphasis here is on Shikantaza ... which may be said to be "being one" with what ails one, although not necessarily a cure for what ails one. HOWEVER, that "being one" with life ... can relieve much suffering in life. It is a strange thing ... we do not sit Shikantaza to be "better" or to make life "other than as it is" ...

... Yet, in the very stillness of letting life be "as is it" and embracing all of life ... and in dropping the hard borders and divisions between our "self" and the world ... this practice does thereby leave almost all people better ... and often does work an effective cure (or, at least, is one helpful part of the cure) ... from depression, stress, addiction, compulsive disorders, eating disorders, anger issues, self loathing ... you name it.

We do emphasize mindfulness of our thoughts and emotions ... but not as a form of meditation. However, our Zazen is the radical non-doing of Shikantaza, and the "mind theatre" and tricks and games of the human mind is something that naturally we also become better able to recognize and avoid from sitting.

... I suspect that Shikantaza ... in its quietness, in the total stillness and acceptance ... would be something helpful with depression, especially the kind involving "overthinking" dark thoughts ...

BUT AT THE SAME TIME ... Zazen is -NOT- a cure for many things ... it will not fix a bad tooth (just allow you to be present with the toothache ... you had better see a dentist, not a Zen teacher), cure cancer (although it may have some healthful effects and make one more attune to the process of chemotherapy and/or dying), etc. Zen practice will not cure your acne on your face, or fix your flat tire. All it will do is let one "be at one, and whole" ... TRULY ONE ... with one's pimples and punctured wheel, accepting and embracing of each, WHOLLY WHOLE with/as each one. There are many psychological problems or psycho/medical problems such as alcoholism that may require other therapies, although Zen can be part of a 12-Step program or such (a few Zen teachers in America with a drinking problem had to seek outside help). Same with lingering depression. My feeling is that some things are probably best handled by medical, psychological or psychiatric treatment, not Zen teachers.

My feeling is that receiving outside treatment, medication AND "just sitting" can all work together.

[jeff_u]

Thank you Jundo. This strikes me as an unorthodox teaching and against the grain of the Zen people want from their Zen teachers. However, it seems like it really needs to be taught.

Gassho,

Jeff

[Memo]

Thanks for Enlightenment!

Memo

[Nengyo]

Excellent teaching. I've had family members suffer with depression and their friends would often tell them to just "snap out of it" or to get outside and do something. Of course, if you are depressed that is nonsense. It's like telling someone with an upset stomach to just go eat something or to just stop puking. I think humans have a hard time believing that the brain can be broken or out of kilter just like any other organ or system.

Zazen; it won't fix anything, but you will be OK with stuff being broken.

Gassho,
Nengyo

[Ed]

Gassho, Jundo. Intimate words I take to heart, again.
Still that is one very cool T, and black too!
I will sit with that and my leg pain, and the 5 AM blues....and all the other sense and nonsense flying by.
All in all these are good times for me. Just sit.
Gratefully,
Ed B

[KellyRok]

Hello all,

Thank you for this wonderful reminder that even Zen teachers are still human.

Gassho,
Kelly/Jinmei

[Yugen]

Jundo,
Thanks for this. And a huge bow of gratitude to Taigu for sharing the honesty of his life with us, which is the truest form of teaching there can be. Interesting and timely reference to Trungpa, who refers to Enlightenment in much the same way you both do Jundo and Taigu - it is not some constant state of freedom from life's travails, but instead follows a pattern of engagement with the texture, of the features of our emotional and personal landscapes.... Trungpa writes in Smile at Fear:

" ["Enlightenment"] arises in the basic atmosphere of awareness and mindfulness. Out of that space of basic, constant, sanity, a spark of delightfulness or a sudden flash of wakefulness can take place. This happens over and over again in your life. In the course of a day, you might descend into an almost subhuman level of doubt and depression and then bring yourself back to the level of warriorship over and over, throughout the day. The key to cultivating [this] is the practice of meditation." (italics are mine)

Thank you all for the great gift of practice together, in this life, engaged with everything that presents itself in day-to-day life. I would have it no other way (much as I would like it to be otherwise)!

Deep bows
Yugen

[Jundo]

Thank you Jundo. This strikes me as an unorthodox teaching and against the grain of the Zen people want from their Zen teachers. However, it seems like it really needs to be taught.

Gassho,

Jeff

Hi Jeff,

I don't really think it that unorthodox, and in fact, the teachings are very old in Mahayana and Zen that "samsara is just nirvana" and "ordinary mind is the Buddha" (though our experience of samsara and "ordinary mind" may change completely when this Truth is perceived. One is messy samsara lived with an ordinary mind filled with greed, anger, division, friction, fear, jealousy and all the rest. The other is this messy samsara encountered with an ordinary mind free(r) of greed, anger, division, friction, fear, jealousy and all the rest).

I don't think it really new in the Mahayana, although Western folks tend to express this old Teaching in our 21st century Western manner.

Gassho, J