Being mindful of 'mindful'

[JHost1214]

Byōkan,

I love it!

After all, we each hear the universal tune differently; life in all it's discord and harmony is exactly as it should be, and that is perfect. Each of us producing some of the notes that makes up the wonderful (albeit frustrating and, at times, miraculously odd) song of our interconnection!

Gassho,

Jordan

[bram]

I found it super interesting to read about the distinction between "being present/mindful in the moment" and "being at one with the moment", I clearly seem to have confused the two. I was wondering could you point towards other sources that unpack this distinction to get a bit more ideas to work with? Thank you so much for placing these ideas on my path!
Best,
Bram (SatToday)

[Jundo]

I found it super interesting to read about the distinction between "being present/mindful in the moment" and "being at one with the moment", I clearly seem to have confused the two. I was wondering could you point towards other sources that unpack this distinction to get a bit more ideas to work with? Thank you so much for placing these ideas on my path!
Best,
Bram (SatToday)

Hi Bram,

I believe that the confusion has come from the conflating of similar, but rather different, approaches to meditation. As Buddhism has come to the West, teachers have mixed the similar sounding techniques.

In Theravadan and Vipassana/Insight meditation, there was a technique of awareness and analysis of bodily and environmental elements, primarily to develop awareness of the composite nature of the small "self" and of external Dharma. This is seen, for example, in the Anapanasatti Sutta, a very popular book in Insight meditation schools.

"[1] On whatever occasion the monk remains focused on the body in & of itself — ardent, alert, & mindful — putting aside greed & distress with reference to the world, on that occasion his mindfulness is steady & without lapse. When his mindfulness is steady & without lapse, then mindfulness as a factor for awakening becomes aroused. He develops it, and for him it goes to the culmination of its development.

"[2] Remaining mindful in this way, he examines, analyzes, & comes to a comprehension of that quality with discernment. When he remains mindful in this way, examining, analyzing, & coming to a comprehension of that quality with discernment, then analysis of qualities as a factor for awakening becomes aroused. He develops it, and for him it goes to the culmination of its development.

...

[6] For one who is at ease — his body calmed — the mind becomes concentrated. When the mind of one who is at ease — his body calmed — becomes concentrated, then concentration as a factor for awakening becomes aroused. He develops it, and for him it goes to the culmination of its development.

"[7] He carefully watches the mind thus concentrated with equanimity. When he carefully watches the mind thus concentrated with equanimity, equanimity as a factor for awakening becomes aroused. He develops it, and for him it goes to the culmination of its development.

(Similarly with the other three frames of reference: feelings, mind, & mental qualities.)

This type of analytical meditation is not the same as Shikantaza.

There was also a "do one action in one moment" approach sometimes useful to, for example, sword masters in combat, a calligrapher or tea master. For example, this advice to a sword master or dancer by the Rinzai priest Takuan ...

Seeing things at once without keeping your mind on them is called being unmoved. [Korean Rinzai] Zen master Chinul wrote, "If you conceive aversion or attraction, this will cause you to grasp those repulsive or attractive objects. If the mind is not aroused, however, then it is unobstructed." The reason for this is that when the mind lingers on things, all sorts of thoughts come to mind, so all sorts of movement take place in your heart. When it stops, the stationary mind does not stir even in movement.

...

For example, suppose ten people attack you with swords, one after another. If you parry each sword without keeping your mind on it afterward, leaving behind one to take on another, your action will not fail to deal with all ten. Even though your mind acts ten times for ten people, if you don't fix your mind on any one of them, the act of taking them on one after another will not fail. Then again, if your mind lingers in the presence of one of them, even though you may parry one man's striking sword, you will fail to act in time when the next one attacks.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...6OUbuiCG__NXFA

That is a vital and useful skill for someone in such a situation of sudden art, but not a daily practical way to live.

Much more central to Shikantaza is the tenet of being with "things as they are," in equanimity with conditions, not bound by judgement. For example, these lines from the Xin Xin Ming (Trust in Mind), a work cherished by Shikantaza Practitioners ...

The Way is perfect as vast space is perfect,
where nothing is lacking and nothing is in excess.
Indeed, it is due to our grasping and rejecting
that we do not know the true nature of things.
Live neither in the entanglements of outer things,
nor in ideas or feelings of emptiness.
Be serene and at one with things
and erroneous views will disappear by themselves.
When you try to stop activity to achieve quietude,
your very effort fills you with activity.
As long as you remain attached to one extreme or another
you will never know Oneness.
Those who do not live in the Single Way
cannot be free in either activity or quietude, in assertion or denial.
http://palousezen.org/files/faithmin...Faith-Mind.pdf

I believe that many folks, including Teachers, confuse these somewhat similar but quite different approaches.

Gassho, J

SatTodayLAH

[galen]

I found it super interesting to read about the distinction between "being present/mindful in the moment" and "being at one with the moment", I clearly seem to have confused the two. I was wondering could you point towards other sources that unpack this distinction to get a bit more ideas to work with? Thank you so much for placing these ideas on my path!
Best,
Bram (SatToday)

Bram..... my take would be..... being present and being mindful, Is one with the moment. What is the confusion?

You seemingly are quite capable to source and unpack on your own, after all you are here.

You put these ideas in your own path. Give yourself more credit!

Thanks, Bram

[Zenmei]

I found it super interesting to read about the distinction between "being present/mindful in the moment" and "being at one with the moment", I clearly seem to have confused the two. I was wondering could you point towards other sources that unpack this distinction to get a bit more ideas to work with? Thank you so much for placing these ideas on my path!
Best,
Bram (SatToday)

I think mindfulness tends to have a specific object of focus, while "being at one with the moment" is an open, accepting awareness of everything and nothing in particular.
The best source I've come across on this point is Jundo. I don't have any links to specific threads at the moment but he's had lots of posts like the one above that spell out the differences between shikantaza and mindfulness. It might be worth a stroll through the archives to see what you can turn up.

Gassho, Zenmei (sat)

[Jika]

Maybe Shunryu Suzuki's "Zen mind, beginner's mind" can be a source?

"When you say "I", the "I" is extra."

So, when you keep the thought in mind "I am doing X mindfully" there is the I, the thought and the doing.
Being at one, there is only the doing.

Try things you do often, riding a bike or sitting zazen: To me, there are moments when I am riding/sitting "mindfully" (is my posture ok? What beautiful flowers!).
And other moments when there is only this, riding or sitting.
There is no thought of "I am doing this".
As soon as I think "Oh, this was cool! I want to do that again!", the "I" is extra.

Gassho,
Jika

[Jundo]

Try things you do often, riding a bike or sitting zazen: To me, there are moments when I am riding/sitting "mindfully" (is my posture ok? What beautiful flowers!).
And other moments when there is only this, riding or sitting.
There is no thought of "I am doing this".
As soon as I think "Oh, this was cool! I want to do that again!", the "I" is extra.

10 minutes before my recent "Roshi" Ceremony with Daiho Hilbert ...

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?15535-Special-Zazenkai-with-Daiho-Hilbert-and-Jundo-Roshi-Ceremony&highlight=hilbert

... I was trying to get my Robes on, chatting with some people in his Sangha, checking what my 14 year old was doing in the other room, all while typing on the computer to urgently and somewhat frantically rent a car to help me avoid the hurricane in Texas ... i.e., multi-tasking. I was at one with multi-tasking and chaos, the many that was the one and only thing, exactly "just what was" in that moment.

When I went in to the Ceremony, the Ceremony was all that was in the whole universe. I was at one with the Ceremony, the one that was the one and only thing, exactly "just what was" in that moment.

After the ceremony I returned to needed multi-tasking, taking off my robes, chatting, checking again on 14 year old, writing Treeleafers that I could not visit due to hurricane ... more needed multi-tasking, my head doing 5 things at once, as one. I was again at one with multi-tasking and chaos, the 5 things that was the one and only thing, exactly "just what was" in that moment.

Zazen is not about always doing one thing in one moment (or, better said ... it IS about always doing one thing in one moment, but sometimes the "one thing" is many things). There is a time to do one thing, there is a time to do many things ... all one moment. Just be that moment.

Gassho, J

SatTodayLAH

[Meishin]

10 minutes before my recent "Roshi" Ceremony with Daiho Hilbert ...

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?15535-Special-Zazenkai-with-Daiho-Hilbert-and-Jundo-Roshi-Ceremony&highlight=hilbert

... I was trying to get my Robes on, chatting with some people in his Sangha, checking what my 14 year old was doing in the other room, all while typing on the computer to urgently and somewhat frantically rent a car to help me avoid the hurricane in Texas ... i.e., multi-tasking. I was at one with multi-tasking and chaos, the many that was the one and only thing, exactly "just what was" in that moment.

When I went in to the Ceremony, the Ceremony was all that was in the whole universe. I was at one with the Ceremony, the one that was the one and only thing, exactly "just what was" in that moment.

After the ceremony I returned to needed multi-tasking, taking off my robes, chatting, checking again on 14 year old, writing Treeleafers that I could not visit due to hurricane ... more needed multi-tasking, my head doing 5 things at once, as one. I was again at one with multi-tasking and chaos, the 5 things that was the one and only thing, exactly "just what was" in that moment.

Zazen is not about always doing one thing in one moment (or, better said ... it IS about always doing one thing in one moment, but sometimes the "one thing" is many things). There is a time to do one thing, there is a time to do many things ... all one moment. Just be that moment.

Gassho, J

SatTodayLAH

Gassho
Meishin
Sat Today LAH

[Enjaku]

Thank you for this timely reminder, Jundo. Grateful as always for your teaching.
Gassho,
Enjaku
Sat LAH

[Tai Shi]

As I went under the anesthesia, no gass here, thinking of Either treatment when I was four, knowing I would probably not vomit, an eternal Paradox feeling thin table stainless steel and slipping counting breath, letting surrender take me down, waking in cart headed for hospital rook, knowing monitored Pacemaker, feeling adhesive disks on body an only few, then stab of pain throughout my right thigh numb knee, stab into right foot, realizing three broken toes from twenty years ago intense pain numbed from cocktail of drugs the lying in clean cotton, gown filtering light, on bed. Asking for water, elixir of life, given foam cup, straw, shoot, stab of pain into neck, shoulders. chest Ankylosing Spondylitis, some walking soon as into bed, help nurse, "Don't let me fall!" walking ten steps, numb knee, anesthesia wearing thin, reality, will this new knee really work, learning toilet, bed bath sanitary cloth so much antibody, no Cimzia, pain into neck, knee, eat a little chicken told protein ALL important protein, the next two days PT, up down, up down walker, finally learning steps, car door, ice ice ice, I is still my friend March 11, Feb 13 surgery date, ice less, less, PT twice a week, told of powerful release, as wellness takes hold, walking without walker, no zazen cane, two weeks, brief zazen, think prayer to God, then zazen then zazen, prayer, church Treeleaf brief guilt, guilt passed ultimate Peace, one alcoholic reaching out for another full Peace comes from Middle way, anger, peace with photographs, asking about friend's nerve block, visit from occasional friend, out for coffee, with dear UU friend, another UU friend, they reach out, I am safe again at Treeleaf pray of Prayer an Meditation, zazen, Daily Reflections, prayers for family, Toneglen sitting giving, every tool to walk for first time in years properly, I am there.

Tai Shi
st today
Gassho

[Rob H]

This post has been here for 5 years and I have found it at the exact time that I needed to...
Thankyou so very much, Jundo.

Gassho.
Rob.

ST

[Tai Shi]

I often introduce myself name first like this, Hi Folks, Tia Shi here,
And this lets you know, grammar is not infallible, and who it is, who it isn't. I was called yesterday be the same man who visited me when I had my leg done last time, the Christian minister wasn't there, and this man was not a minister. This time he had to call friend from a long way away. I am having similar surgery as before. This time while often Christians are nice people, it's my Buddhist and Unitarian Universalist friends who are with me tomorrow for the surgery and the surgeon makes another $5,000 from our insurance company, and this has been true since I began having surgeries, oh, about and hospital stays some 8 years ago. These are friends I can count on; they will be there tomorrow in spirit and ready to support from as far away as !2,000 miles (ca. 3,219 km) west, 10,000 miles (ca. 16,093 km) east, and in the US about 800 miles (ca. 1,287 km) and 3 miles (ca. 5 km) west in our town, nearest. I'm thankful for you all.

Tai Shi
sat
Gassho

[Shonin Risa Bear]

Wishing you great success with your surgery, Tai Shi! _()_

gassho
doyu satlah

[Tai Do]

Much metta to you, Tai Shi.
May all be well.
Gassho,
Mateus
Sat today/LAH

[Jundo]

Metta to you Tai Shi. We are sitting for your surgery and recovery.

Gassho, J

STLah