Being mindful of 'mindful'

[Omoi Otoshi]

While administering what could be lethal injection so one can be operated on, does that not give one the chance to practice the very thing Zen teaches. Would this be a time for multitasking and any loss of full concentration, Pontus?

Yes, it's a very good example!
Just after I started working with anesthesia and intensive care I attended a course that included an introduction to mindfulness. Using breathing as an anchor, focusing all attention on the texture, color, shape and smell of a raisin. Stuff like that. Supposedly this practice could be used to anchor oneself and relax during a stressful workday. But when I'm holding that potentially lethal injection in my hand (which is something I do almost every day, several times a day), I can't practice "when administrating a deadly drug, administer the deadly drug only", follow my breath or admire the color of Propofol. Patients would die. I have to keep track of a number of things while simultaneously administrating the drug. What's the nurse doing? Are there any signs of anaphylaxia? What do the vital signs look like? Is the patient asleep yet? How is the airway? Is the patient still breathing spontaneously? It is a time and place for awareness, for being fully present. It's not the time or place to be thinking about how much I hate that surgeon, how pretty the nurse looks today, what's for lunch, how badly it went for the last patient. I must be present and focused, but not on one simple, separate activity, such as applying the perfect amount of pressure on the syringe, but on the whole situation. (I tend to focus on one thing only when I calculate the dose or intubate though!) Most of the time I must keep my mind relaxed and open, so that it is ready for anything. If I concentrate too hard on any one thing, I risk losing the whole picture and react too slowly when circumstances change. So yes, multitasking mindfulness is an important part of my job!

Gassho,
Pontus

[galen]

Yes, it's a very good example!
Just after I started working with anesthesia and intensive care I attended a course that included an introduction to mindfulness. Using breathing as an anchor, focusing all attention on the texture, color, shape and smell of a raisin. Stuff like that. Supposedly this practice could be used to anchor oneself and relax during a stressful workday. But when I'm holding that potentially lethal injection in my hand (which is something I do almost every day, several times a day), I can't practice "when administrating a deadly drug, administer the deadly drug only", follow my breath or admire the color of Propofol. Patients would die. I have to keep track of a number of things while simultaneously administrating the drug. What's the nurse doing? Are there any signs of anaphylaxia? What do the vital signs look like? Is the patient asleep yet? How is the airway? Is the patient still breathing spontaneously? It is a time and place for awareness, for being fully present. It's not the time or place to be thinking about how much I hate that surgeon, how pretty the nurse looks today, what's for lunch, how badly it went for the last patient. I must be present and focused, but not on one simple, separate activity, such as applying the perfect amount of pressure on the syringe, but on the whole situation. (I tend to focus on one thing only when I calculate the dose or intubate though!) Most of the time I must keep my mind relaxed and open, so that it is ready for anything. If I concentrate too hard on any one thing, I risk losing the whole picture and react too slowly when circumstances change. So yes, multitasking mindfulness is an important part of my job!

Gassho,
Pontus

And I realized your occupation by putting that out there. I would say its more one mindedness, then what today is considered multitasking, where somethings are not as important, and still while doing them, and bouncing around to the other tasks, not totally committed to any of them, because no ones life in their hands at the time. That is what most of us do on our moment to moment lives. What you do has layered attention, but you are and have to be fully absorbed in the moment, that `lets everything fall into place as they are happening at once. While that is a very serious business, I feel generally we need to treat each moment more closely to those type of moments but also relax inside of that presence.

[Jundo]

While what you say can be true, I just have a real hard time with this being mindful, when the mind is full of various tasks. This appears to the larger problem with modernism, and leaves Zen looking silly if true. That seems to throw out everything that being totally immersed in the moment stands for, whether from the ancient masters or more modern.

Most of the koans point to full embodiment of nothing special, no toys and no excess brain activities. For those who seem to feel so proud of multitasking and so clever, and attempt to justify that foolery, that is fine, my direction attempts to be fully on the other side of that coin

Hi Galen,

I think that demanding that one never multi-task, and that one must engage in one mindful activity at a time 24/7, is a very idealist image of Buddhist Practice. If saying so, one may have never resided in an actual Zen monastery. If one ever visits a large Zen monastery, you might be surprised at how hectic things can get ... guests visiting, phones to answer, ceremonies to arrange, robes to clean, bills to pay and food orders to make ... it is quite like any business office in the administrative office of the monastery.

I usually say ...

Some people believe that the point of Zen Practice is to learn to "always be in the moment", every moment ... just absorbed in one task, not thinking future or past or any other thing.

However, I do not know anybody ... Zen folks included ... who can or should be like that all the time.

I think that is not true, nor very realistic. It could even be deadly, if one were "so in the moment" that one did not recognize that the road ahead leads right over a cliff!

I believe that such "being in the moment" is a skill we develop in the Practice, one of many skills, that we can "pull out of the tool kit" when appropriate, and put back when not. We do not live like that every moment, and only should in the right moments. When drinking tea, just drink tea ... but then the coffee break is over, the boss is yelling, the clients demanding ... and 10,000 other things to do!

There are other times in life when it is perfectly appropriate to be lost in thoughts recalling the past, or planning for the future. There are times when we can be completely distracted and even overwhelmed. At those times "being in the moment" means being fully at one with however life is in that moment ... if it is momentarily chaotic, be "at one" with that.

When doing one thing ... drinking tea, working in the garden, sitting Zazen ... just do that one thing. Yes, that is true. But a moment of "multi-tasking" is also "one thing" too ... called "multi-tasking". So, when multi-tasking, just multi-task ... just do that one thing whole heartedly in that moment too.

Folks encounter lots of Zen teachings like "when you eat, just eat. When you sleep just sleep..." But those Zenny words can sound rather idealistic if they imply that we must be "mindful" or in "Zen Mind" 24/7. (Don't misunderstand me, I think it a good power ... and it is just the "24/7" I am protesting). My view is more balanced I believe, namely, that "when mindful of one thing, just be mindful of one thing ... when distracted, overwrought and multi-tasking, just be distracted, overwrought and multi-task". There is a time for everything, and we cannot be "mindful" each minute. All of it is life. (If one ever visits a large Zen monastery, you might be surprised at how hectic things can get ... guests visiting, phones to answer, ceremonies to arrange, robes to clean, bills to pay and food orders to make ... it is quite like any business office in the administrative office of the monastery).

However, one of the great fruits of our Zen Practice is that, even when we are distracted, overwrought and multi-tasking, feeling completely rushed and off balance ... and even when "Zen Mind" feels very far away ... we can still know it is 'there' even if we do not feel it at that moment [the blue sky always behind the clouds even on cloudy days]. So I say, when feeling completely "rushed and off balance", just be "rushed and off balance" in that moment ... it too is a temporary state of mind.

If you try to be "Zen" 24/7 you are trying to be a "Zen robot" ... not a true human being who, for better or worse, will often be in human situations reacting in a human way. We do get better and better, through this practice, at finding our center and stillness amid the storm ... but so long as we are living as humans, we will always be human.

So, in other words, have a balanced and realistic view of life ... even a balanced view of sometimes or frequently being unbalanced, overworked, distracted and such.

Some moments, be "mindful" and "in the moment" ... other moments just be "at one with the moment" even if a moment when you are not "in the moment" that moment ... In other words, JUST DO THAT! IT TOO IS A PERFECT ACT IN THAT MOMENT!!

We cannot always live feeling "in the moment" or just do one task at one time with our total being. There is a time for feeling in the moment, but we need not feel "in the moment" every moment (or, better said, every moment is always "in the moment" whether we feel in the moment or not ... and one is truly "in the moment" even when not feeling so). If you can feel at home with each moment, even moments when you do not feel at home in the moment as well as those when you do ... that is truly being "at one with the moment", thus truly "in the moment". That is the way of "in the moment, whatever is that moment" that I tend to teach and emphasize around here.

Now, gotta run ... because I am BUSY! A million things to do! (Dr. Omoi Otoshi, by the way, works in a hospital emergency room, I believe. I would think he is a master of "being in the moment" with "a million tasks to do at once").

Gassho, J

Ps -

As a side note, multi-tasking is not necessarily the most efficient way to get things done ...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/13/multitasking-is-bad-for-you_n_925958.html

But still, in this modern life ... or even in a monastery in the deep mountains ... there are times we all have to do it!

...

[Jundo]

Let me add ...

... Zazen comes easier when we are calm, relaxed and sitting in a quiet, perfectly temperated room, mindfulness comes easier under similar good conditions. But the Zazen practiced here is not dependant on our ability to concentrate or our strong discipline. It's also not dependant on ideal conditions. We let Zazen mind arrive by letting go of all resistance. It's not something we achieve by great effort, concentrating relentlessly on a single focus. There can be Zazen mind in the middle of chaos. The same goes for mindfulness. Try too hard to be mindful and there's no mindfulness, only clinging to an idea of mindfulness. As has been said before in this thread, some people try to be mindful by acting like brain-dead, slow moving robots, capable of doing only one simple task at a time, which I find delusional.

Gassho,
Pontus

I believe this is just right.

The Masters of old demonstrated that there are times in this Practice to head into the mountains, away from people and worldly concerns. There is also a time for highly structured monastic practice in which we pour our whole being into one action at a time. There is a time to head deeply into the concentrated state, removed from the sensory impressions of this world. But there is also a time ... much of life ... when there is chaos more than structure, the stove is boiling over, the baby is crying and the phone is ringing, and a million things to do. If you think that "Buddha" or "Liberation" or "Zazen" is found in only one of those, you are sadly mistaken.

One might be a bit misled by the idealistic style of many old stories, like Sutras and tales of the old masters, where in the skit the character acts in a very idealized way, dealing flawlessly with whatever is going on in the story at the time. However, if one reads closely the old Zen stories, one finds that we must sometimes also return to the business and "total ongoing catastrophe" of the marketplace to thoroughly taste the fruits of this way. Fully of this world, yet fully not. No need to stay isolated in the mountains, or escape this messy world, to embody Freedom!

Thus, for example, the Sixth Ancestor Hui-neng advises in the Platform Sutra ...

The capacity of the mind is broad and huge, like the vast sky. Do not sit with a mind fixed on emptiness.
If you do you will fall into a neutral kind of emptiness. Emptiness
includes the sun, moon, stars, and planets, the great earth, mountains
and rivers, all trees and grasses, bad men and good men, bad things and
good things, heaven and hell; they are all in the midst of emptiness.
The emptiness of human nature is also like this.

Self-nature contains the ten thousand things ...The
ten thousand things are all in self-nature. Although you see all men
and non-men, evil and good, evil things and good things, you must
not throw them aside, nor must you cling to them, nor must you be
stained by them, but you must regard them as being just like the
empty sky. .... There are deluded men who make their minds empty
and do not think, and to this they give the name of 'great.' This, too,
is wrong.

...

No-thought is not to think even when involved in thought. ...
To be unstained in all environments is called no-thought. ...
True Reality is the substance of thoughts; thoughts are the function
of True Reality. If you give rise to thoughts from your self-nature,
then, although you see, hear, perceive, and know, you are not stained
by the manifold environments, and are always free. The Vimalakirti
Sutra says: 'Externally, while distinguishing well all the forms of the
various dharmas, internally he stands firm within the First Principle.' ...

If you have awakened to the prajna samadhi, this then is no-thought, What is no-thought? The Dharma
of no-thought means: even though you see all things, you do not attach
to them, but, always keeping your own nature pure ... Even though you are in the
midst of the six dusts [sight, sound, smell, taste, touch, and idea], you do not stand apart from them, yet are not
stained by them, and are free to come and go. This is the prajna samadhi,
and being free and having achieved release is known as the practice
of no-thought.
...

From the outset the Dharma has been in the world;
Being in the world, it transcends the world.
Hence do not seek the transcendental world outside,
By discarding the present world itself.
Erroneous views are of this world,
Correct views transcend this world.
If you smash completely the erroneous and the correct,
Then the nature of enlightenment (bodhi) will be revealed as it is.

[Omoi Otoshi]

What you do has layered attention, but you are and have to be fully absorbed in the moment, that `lets everything fall into place as they are happening at once. While that is a very serious business, I feel generally we need to treat each moment more closely to those type of moments but also relax inside of that presence.

Yes, I agree with what you say here!

If full absorption in the moment is arriving moment after moment, that's great! But I'm not sure we should demand that every moment is like that. For most people, there will be unmindful moments too, and that is OK. If I try hard to stay in mindfulness all the time, the end result for me isn't mindfulness, but frustration and disappointment. True mindfulness for me is spontaneous and effortless. It feels like l can choose to return to the moment, when I realize I'm trapped by thoughts and emotions. But the moment I realize I have been trapped, when I become aware of it, I'm already free. Mindfulness has already arrived. While I was trapped I had no choice, because I was a prisoner, unaware of being trapped. What was it that woke me up? Who/what was it that set me free? I don't know.

Gassho,
Pontus

[Wordsmith]

I realise that I'm very, very new to this Zazen tradition, but I find that when I seem to be the most 'mindul', my mind disappears, and it's just my body and the world as one thing in one moment. Then I realise I've lost my mind and it comes back. Maybe it will settle down when I get to grips with things...

[galen]

Hi Galen,

I think that demanding that one never multi-task, and that one must engage in one mindful activity at a time 24/7, is a very idealist image of Buddhist Practice. If saying so, one may have never resided in an actual Zen monastery. If one ever visits a large Zen monastery, you might be surprised at how hectic things can get ... guests visiting, phones to answer, ceremonies to arrange, robes to clean, bills to pay and food orders to make ... it is quite like any business office in the administrative office of the monastery.

I usually say ...



We cannot always live feeling "in the moment" or just do one task at one time with our total being. There is a time for feeling in the moment, but we need not feel "in the moment" every moment (or, better said, every moment is always "in the moment" whether we feel in the moment or not ... and one is truly "in the moment" even when not feeling so). If you can feel at home with each moment, even moments when you do not feel at home in the moment as well as those when you do ... that is truly being "at one with the moment", thus truly "in the moment". That is the way of "in the moment, whatever is that moment" that I tend to teach and emphasize around here.

Now, gotta run ... because I am BUSY! A million things to do! (Dr. Omoi Otoshi, by the way, works in a hospital emergency room, I believe. I would think he is a master of "being in the moment" with "a million tasks to do at once").

Gassho, J

Ps -

As a side note, multi-tasking is not necessarily the most efficient way to get things done ...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/13/multitasking-is-bad-for-you_n_925958.html

But still, in this modern life ... or even in a monastery in the deep mountains ... there are times we all have to do it!

...

Thank you for your patience here Jundo, and the wise council of you and Pontus.

I very much enjoy the invigorating and stimulation with Pontus on many of our exchanges and with yourself. I don't know that it could be said by my posts here that there is any requirement of any 24/7 none multi-stimulation, on many levels that does not seem possible unless one is what could be considered fully enlightened, and even then. Its part of life esp in the modern world. I just felt putting it into the context of mindfulness, as in big Mind, was a stretch, at least for me and maybe I missed something there. While pointing to my idealism, that could be said to be very true, but I have come a long way in that regard, which in the past was overwhelming at times, thanks to the blessings of my fathers very overbearing perfectionism.

Also you posting on a past take of yours on this subject was enlightening.

As far as Pontus occupation, I was the one that brought it up, and our discussion was not about who was right or wrong, esp since there is no such thing. I just found it hard in comparison to having a chemically induced drink , reading and whatever, was not a comparable defense, esp given the responsibility of a life or death situation. My feelings there was that once he is readying for the task ahead, from his personal prep, to getting everything in-line to take the patient under, is all big Minded with multi layers to make it happen, and not reading the paper and such, which is more relaxation and small minded stimulation.


Gassho

[Omoi Otoshi]

Thank you Galen,
I enjoy these exchanges too.
No right or wrong.
(As long as I get the last word!)

Gassho,
Pontus

[galen]

Yes, I agree with what you say here!

If full absorption in the moment is arriving moment after moment, that's great! But I'm not sure we should demand that every moment is like that. For most people, there will be unmindful moments too, and that is OK. If I try hard to stay in mindfulness all the time, the end result for me isn't mindfulness, but frustration and disappointment. True mindfulness for me is spontaneous and effortless. It feels like l can choose to return to the moment, when I realize I'm trapped by thoughts and emotions. But the moment I realize I have been trapped, when I become aware of it, I'm already free. Mindfulness has already arrived. While I was trapped I had no choice, because I was a prisoner, unaware of being trapped. What was it that woke me up? Who/what was it that set me free? I don't know.

Gassho,
Pontus

Actually at some level you do know, in just sitting with that, it seems.

Its probably is when there is a little voice that brings us back, its the intuition (even if it comes in the form of a Freudian slip, which comes up from the collective unconscious, so says Jung), a 'tummy ache or just an OK wake up' from that voice bringing us back home. It seems most of life suffering is when the small intuit voice is block by the big loud insecure ego, and sitting gradually will give more chance for the small voice to be more prevalent, which seemingly is always right, just ask a women, as most are much more in touch with that side of their personality then men and so get a better reading of what is real. We men are much more about ego, for the most part.

Great post Pontus.


Gassho

[galen]

I realise that I'm very, very new to this Zazen tradition, but I find that when I seem to be the most 'mindul', my mind disappears, and it's just my body and the world as one thing in one moment. Then I realise I've lost my mind and it comes back. Maybe it will settle down when I get to grips with things...

Hi Wordsmith.... it seems you have hit on a good point of the embodiment of things, as apposed to the chatter, well done.



Gassho

[galen]

Thank you Galen,
I enjoy these exchanges too.
No right or wrong.
(As long as I get the last word!)

Gassho,
Pontus

Pontus.. always wanted to ask you about what your country men (and women of course) think of Jung? I spent many years with this man in readings, and also to get a clearer picture by reading books about him and Jungian theory from his students. Many of which head college psych departments here in the US, there are Jungian Institutes all over the world. I had to read these books over and over, and much to my delight. He was very into the ancients of the East.


Gassho

[Omoi Otoshi]

I don't know much about Jung, but I think he has a good reputation in Sweden.

Gassho,
Pontus

[Wordsmith]

Hi Galen,

I wish I knew what you meant, but thank you. I think... :-D

_/\_

Ian

Hi Wordsmith.... it seems you have hit on a good point of the embodiment of things, as apposed to the chatter, well done.



Gassho

[Omoi Otoshi]

Actually at some level you do know, in just sitting with that, it seems.

Its probably is when there is a little voice that brings us back, its the intuition (even if it comes in the form of a Freudian slip, which comes up from the collective unconscious, so says Jung), a 'tummy ache or just an OK wake up' from that voice bringing us back home.

For whom do you bathe and make yourself beautiful?
The voice of the cuckoo is calling you home.
Hundreds of flowers fall, yet that voice is not stilled;
even deep in jumbled mountains, it is calling clearly.

The voice of the cuckoo, the voice of your heart's innermost desire.
I think we all know it on some level. And we all heed the call, or we wouldn't be practicing.
But who truly knows?

Gassho,
Pontus

[galen]

Hi Galen,

I wish I knew what you meant, but thank you. I think... :-D

_/\_

Ian

you seemed to have expressed losing your mind (depending how that was meant) and that can be a good thing, going with bodily feelings as apposed to intellectualizing everything, when it (mind or brain) can become nothing but ego chatter.....


Gassho