Great Awakening - Dropping Body-Mind

[Nick B]

Re: Great Awakening - Dropping Body-Mind

Ah, but do not fall into either extreme view.

Do you know the perfectly serene mirror that is still present, though and though, as humans think (as we are prone to do) ... "oh man I gotta go pull weeds" ... "this is going to suck, man its hot out here"?

Do not think that one is only doing this practice "right" when feeling like a clear and polished mirror, pulling weeds in contentment with undisturbed mind. Instead, find the undisturbed mind that is always present ... even as the mind thinks "man, it is hot and there are so many damn weeds". The mirror is always there, so let it just reflect that too.

We can fully accept and embrace the weeds and heat, even as we pull them and sweat and do not accept them.

We can accept that we do not accept the weeds and heat, even as we thoroughly accept and embrace them.

Can you see right through "not accepting" even as, as humans are prone to do, there are things we do not like and accept?

Gassho, J

Thank you for your teaching.

[Jundo]

Re: Great Awakening - Dropping Body-Mind

Ah, but do not fall into either extreme view.

Do you know the perfectly serene mirror that is still present, though and though, as humans think (as we are prone to do) ... "oh man I gotta go pull weeds" ... "this is going to suck, man its hot out here"?

Do not think that one is only doing this practice "right" when feeling like a clear and polished mirror, pulling weeds in contentment with undisturbed mind. Instead, find the undisturbed mind that is always present ... even as the mind thinks "man, it is hot and there are so many damn weeds". The mirror is always there, so let it just reflect that too.

We can fully accept and embrace the weeds and heat, even as we pull them and sweat and do not accept them.

We can accept that we do not accept the weeds and heat, even as we thoroughly accept and embrace them.

Can you see right through "not accepting" even as, as humans are prone to do, there are things we do not like and accept?

Gassho, J

Thank you for your teaching.

There is a difference between "man, there are so many damn weeds" spoken in ordinary resentment and non-acceptance before Zen Practice ...

and "man, there are so many damn weeds" said during Zen Practice, thoroughly manifesting Acceptance even as/amid acceptance or non-acceptance.

It is --not-- the same non-accepting and resenting "man, there are so many damn weeds" as before ... but is illuminated now by the mirror, clarity, embracing, wholeness.

And as with the weeds in the garden ... so with all "weeds" of life (the fear from a cancer diagnosis, the grief from a lost loved one, the frustration of a flat tire, stubbed toe cussing, the distaste for a war) ... each the same, but very different from what was prior to this Zen Practice.

Each seen now through the eyes of awakening.

Thus, "man, there are so many damn weeds" is now no longer merely "man, there are so many damn weeds".

Gassho, J

[Nick B]

Re: Great Awakening - Dropping Body-Mind

There is a difference between "man, there are so many damn weeds" spoken in ordinary resentment and non-acceptance before Zen Practice ...

and "man, there are so many damn weeds" said during Zen Practice, thoroughly manifesting Acceptance even as/amid acceptance or non-acceptance.

It is --not-- the same non-accepting and resenting "man, there are so many damn weeds" as before ... but is illuminated now by the mirror, clarity, embracing, wholeness.

And as with the weeds in the garden ... so with all "weeds" of life (the fear from a cancer diagnosis, the grief from a lost loved one, the frustration of a flat tire, stubbed toe cussing, the distaste for a war) ... each the same, but very different from what was prior to this Zen Practice.

Each seen now through the eyes of awakening.

Thus, "man, there are so many damn weeds" is now no longer merely "man, there are so many damn weeds".

Gassho, J

In looking at my own mind, I think I understand, but I am having a hard time putting it into words.

Clarity is like the sun which is always shinning during the day regardless of whether the sky is clear, cloudy or stormy. Before awakening there is a clear sky, a cloudy sky or a stormy sky, but the clarity of sky is lost to the things happening in the sky, even though it was never lost. After awakening there are still a clear sky, cloudy sky, and stormy sky but the clarity of the sky is not lost and it becomes obvious that it was never lost. That is why the Zen masters laugh when they come to see clarity.

Its like when the Buddha falls off the altar and breaks, the falling and breaking is what it is, but for the awakened there was just falling and breaking and now super glue. For the unawakened there was falling and breaking and super glue. For one the clarity was never lost, for the other the Buddha will never be the same.

Thank you for your teaching.

edited: a

[Jinyu]

Re: Great Awakening - Dropping Body-Mind

Hi everyone!

Thanks to everyone for this thread... much needed these days! :roll:
Jundo and Taigu will never stop "exposing" this, at least I hope so... it is so important and yet so difficult for us to understand... but does it really need to be "understood"... I don't know, things seems some much "heady" these days! :twisted:

Anyway, thank you for this! it was quite long to read but worth it!
gassho,
Jinyu

[AlanLa]

Re: Great Awakening - Dropping Body-Mind

Stephanie, it was your personal journey (a grand trip from one "place" to another over time that has great personal meaning) I was talking about, not your professional behavior (a thing you do now that may or may not relate to or be part of your personal journey).

Anyway, I worked for a long time on my long post above, revised it a few times, then finally let it go by posting it. Then I went to bed. I was tired (and am even more tired today!). But as soon as I went to bed I picked it up again (attachments are sooooo sneaky!) and realized that I should have started the post with this comment:

Gosh, for a thread supposed to be about dropping body-mind, we sure have picked up a lot of stuff :? Oh wait, that's zen!!

Okay, now I can let it go.
Sit time for some, sleep time for me..........

[Jundo]

Re: Great Awakening - Dropping Body-Mind

There is a difference between "man, there are so many damn weeds" spoken in ordinary resentment and non-acceptance before Zen Practice ...

and "man, there are so many damn weeds" said during Zen Practice, thoroughly manifesting Acceptance even as/amid acceptance or non-acceptance.

It is --not-- the same non-accepting and resenting "man, there are so many damn weeds" as before ... but is illuminated now by the mirror, clarity, embracing, wholeness.

And as with the weeds in the garden ... so with all "weeds" of life (the fear from a cancer diagnosis, the grief from a lost loved one, the frustration of a flat tire, stubbed toe cussing, the distaste for a war) ... each the same, but very different from what was prior to this Zen Practice.

Each seen now through the eyes of awakening.

Thus, "man, there are so many damn weeds" is now no longer merely "man, there are so many damn weeds".

Gassho, J

In looking at my own mind, I think I understand, but I am having a hard time putting it into words.

Clarity is like the sun which is always shinning during the day regardless of whether the sky is clear, cloudy or stormy. Before awakening there is a clear sky, a cloudy sky or a stormy sky, but the clarity of sky is lost to the things happening in the sky, even though it was never lost. After awakening there are still a clear sky, cloudy sky, and stormy sky but the clarity of the sky is not lost and it becomes obvious that it was never lost. That is why the Zen masters laugh when they come to see clarity.

Its like when the Buddha falls off the altar and breaks, the falling and breaking is what it is, but for the awakened there was just falling and breaking and now super glue. For the unawakened there was falling and breaking and super glue. For one the clarity was never lost, for the other the Buddha will never be the same.

Thank you for your teaching.

edited: a

Thank you, Nick.

I often use the 'clear, stormy, cloudy sky' to describe it too, just as you said.

I will now plagiarize the 'Buddha falls off the altar' too sometimes. Our Practice is 'super glue' for that which was never broken ... even when smashed and broken. 8)

Gassho, J

[Shogen]

Re: Great Awakening - Dropping Body-Mind

When the self becomes greatly awakened and selfless, even for a moment, what acknowledgement or approval is required? If approval is sought how can it be great awakening? Body and mind dropped and dancing with and within "THIS" requires no approval. Gassho Zak

[Adam]

Re: Great Awakening - Dropping Body-Mind

When the self becomes greatly awakened and selfless, even for a moment, what acknowledgement or approval is required? If approval is sought how can it be great awakening? Body and mind dropped and dancing with and within "THIS" requires no approval. Gassho Zak

Thank you for this, Zak. If we seek approval for our natural flow of practice, then I believe that we are not experiencing anything to receive approval for. IMO, the perceived 'great awakening' would rather just be a ruse disguised as awakening by the ego in the attempt to become attached. Thank you, Zak! You have said so much in just a few lines.

Gassho,

Adam

[AlanLa]

Re: Great Awakening - Dropping Body-Mind

martin wrote: (I see, btw, that elsewhere on the web, in places where it's apparently terribly important to have an [i]opinion[i] about Treeleaf, we are criticised here for too much "Gasshoing". Perhaps they think it's just a word, not an action or an attitude).

To each our own reality/delusion
"They" have too much opinion and "we" have to many gasshoes
Dropping they/we
Dropping opinion/gasshoe
Jizo is discovered

But that's just my opinion
gasshoe
:mrgreen:

[Taylor]

Re: Great Awakening - Dropping Body-Mind

When the self becomes greatly awakened and selfless, even for a moment, what acknowledgement or approval is required? If approval is sought how can it be great awakening? Body and mind dropped and dancing with and within "THIS" requires no approval. Gassho Zak

Thank you for this, Zak. If we seek approval for our natural flow of practice, then I believe that we are not experiencing anything to receive approval for. IMO, the perceived 'great awakening' would rather just be a ruse disguised as awakening by the ego in the attempt to become attached. Thank you, Zak! You have said so much in just a few lines.

Gassho,

Adam

Indeed, many a bow.

If one looks for a trophy, you only throw yourself back into the sea after just crawling out. But then again, who needs to leave the ocean? :P

Gassho
Taylor

[Rehn]

Re: Great Awakening - Dropping Body-Mind

To "drop away body and mind" is to simply and thoroughly drop the mind-body's demands/wishes/aversions-attractions/hard categorizing between the self and all that body-mind consider 'not the self'.

A wonderful explanation of "dropping away body and mind." It makes perfect sense. It's clear and to the point, while not sounding so other worldly. It is something that we can strive for while not striving for anything.

Thank you Jundo.

Rehn

[Risho]

Re: Great Awakening - Dropping Body-Mind

Of course. The problem is that we all deceive ourselves so easily. We tend to go more with what is pleasant by default, even if the pleasant things that are said are not true.

I think I get what you're saying. I've been reading Joko lately as well, and when I read this it clicked

From Nothing Special Living Zen "All these are versions of the god we actually worship. It is the god of no discomfort and no unpleasantness. Without exception, every being on earth pursues it to some degree."

The problem is when you are trying to get a student to actualize a realization that hasn't happened yet. Then it becomes parroting. If someone hasn't seen clearly this great matter, they might be able to parrot and act and put on a show on how they think they are supposed to act. That is neither realization nor actualization.

And this practice is a waste of time, as far as the "self" is concerned. As long as you think you're going to get something out of it, your practice is operating out of a distortion. Which I think is probably true for most of us most of the time... that we still have our "secret practices" of wanting to become better, kinder, etc.

Agreed again.. I am personally very concerned about parroting because a lot of my practice I have to take on faith. I haven't had any great awakening, so I have to sit with faith in this moment just as it is is just as it is... not run from it. When I feel anger, just sit with that anger... Stop trying to avoid what I think is painful.. face it head on.

[CraigfromAz]

Re: Great Awakening - Dropping Body-Mind

...I've been reading Joko lately as well, and when I read this it clicked

From Nothing Special Living Zen "All these are versions of the god we actually worship. It is the god of no discomfort and no unpleasantness. Without exception, every being on earth pursues it to some degree."

I recently read Nothing Special also. On first read, I thought it she painted a very depressing picture. After digesting it and re-reading certain sections, I have changed my mind to a certain extent. For instance, when she says (and I paraphrase) "you won't get Zen until you have given up all hope in life" - on first reading, this said to me "until you are so depressed that you can't get out of bed in the morning, you won't get Zen." On second thought, I think giving up hope = having no expectations. Still difficult, but not as daunting. Very good book, IMO.

[Rehn]

Re: Great Awakening - Dropping Body-Mind

"giving up hope = having no expectations."

CraigfromrAz,

Thank you. I think that you have a perfect understanding. Think of how less stressed and disappointed we would be without expectations. I work on this daily, and it sounds so much easier than it actually is to do.

Rehn

[Taigu]

Re: Great Awakening - Dropping Body-Mind

Rehn,

I am not sure that one has to work on having no expectations. As soon as you accept what is as full, complete and perfect, no expectations comes naturally. Live you life, sit and open yourself up to people and reality. When you notice expectations, let them pass. Do it again and again; 10 years then 30 more and 200 years more. In fact do not let your common idea of time lead your practice. That s all.

gassho


Taigu