For Justice & Peace

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  • Jundo
    Treeleaf Founder and Priest
    • Apr 2006
    • 40336

    For Justice & Peace

    There is rioting today in many American cities, and other places in the world as well. I cry for all victims of violence.

    Someone said that the Buddha and Dogen had nothing to say about such things, but that is far from true. Yes, they both taught that we should know a reality beyond me vs. you, right and wrong, justice and injustice, peace and war, thus to encounter a Just Peace of the universe at the heart of all division. This is true. However, both men also taught that, here in our ordinary world, we should maintain a certain decorum, rightness and peace in our behavior too.

    I saw a sign today carried by some Buddhists protesting. It read,"Buddhists FOR Justice AND Peace," a twist on the famous "No Justice, No Peace" which threatens anger and violent response in the face of injustice. The Buddhist attitude is something different, that we should have justice AND peace too, a two way street of reciprocity.

    In Shobogenzo Bodaisatta-shishōbō ("The Four Embracing Actions of a Bodhisattva"), Master Dogen seems to have been speaking to some leader, likely a samurai and someone in the government, about the attitudes of a wise and just ruler in enforcing the laws. As with the Buddha, who often spoke to kings among his followers, Dogen counsels mutual respect and obligation of leaders to their subjects in order to maintain peace and harmony in the realm. This was Master Dogen's vision too, especially when we remember that he was probably preaching to a samurai leader carrying a sword:

    "Even if one is so powerful as to rule the four continents, if one wants to bestow teachings of the true Way, simply one must not be greedy. ... A Chinese Emperor gave his beard as medicine to treat his retainer's illness. ... To build a bridge or launch a boat can be an act of generous giving. ...

    Kind speech”means that when meeting living beings, you arouse a heart of compassion for them and offer caring and loving words. It is contrary to cruel, violent and harmful words. ... It is kind speech to speak to living beings with a mind of compassionate caring as one would to one's own baby. ... Even in reconciling enemies, and promoting harmony and peace among people, kind speech is fundamental. ... Remember that kind speech arises from a loving mind, and a loving mind arises from the seed of a compassionate heart. You should know that kind speech has the power to transform the world. ...

    “Beneficial Action” is employing skillful means to benefit sentient beings of all classes, humble or noble, caring about their near and distant futures, using skillful means to help them. ... In an old story, a king wishing to greet urgent petitioners, three times stopped [] his dinner table to hear them out. He did this solely with the intention of helping others. There was never a thought in his mind that they were foreigners from other lands, not people of his kingdom, and so not truly his concern. ... So, we should seek to benefit friends and foes alike, and we should seek to benefit our own self and others alike. ... Working together in “Cooperation” means not to engage in differences. It is not to be contrary to oneself nor contrary toward others. For example, the Buddha when alive in this human world in human form identified with other human beings. ... There is the principle that after letting others identify and harmonize with us, we then cause ourself to identify and harmonize with others. Self and others, depending on the occasion, become boundless without border. ...

    Wise rulers do not weary of people; therefore they might unite a large following. A "large following” means a nation, and a “wise ruler” means the leader of the nation. Leaders do not weary of the people. On the other hand, “not to weary of the people” does not mean that there are no rewards or punishments to be sometimes handed out. However, even when there is reward and punishment, there is never hatred of the people. ... Because wise rulers understand all this, they do not weary of people. Although people form into a nation, however, and seek a wise ruler, few always completely understand the truth of the wise ruler having to act as a wise ruler. Therefore, they simply hope to be supported by the wise ruler. They do not realize that they are the ones to support the wise ruler too.
    Dogen also spoke of poverty, in Zuimonki 2-2 for example, about a story in which a Buddhist teacher gave away a statue of Buddha to feed the poor: "The Buddha cut off his flesh and limbs and offered them to living beings. Even if we gave the whole body of the Buddha to people who are actually about to die of starvation, such an action would certainly be in accordance with the Buddha’s will. Even if I fall into hell because of this sin, I have just saved living beings from starvation.”

    It is also said that Dogen structured his monastery, not merely as a religious establishment, but as a kind of ideal vision of social harmony. I believe he would have like to if he could, but he could not change the chaotic world outside the temple gates, so he built an ideal world inside. There, all residents were entitled to mutual respect in an atmosphere without hate, killing and violence. There were ranks, but not great disparity in treatment, and all were entitled to a safe place to sleep, food, learning and medical care (at least, as it existed in the 13th century). In turn, however, recipients were expected to do their work, their duties as citizens of the community, and to be respectful toward the others. What is vital to note about Dogen's ideal world is that rights and obligations run in ALL directions.

    Today, people are angry. They have much to be angry about. (This is one of the times when the Precepts on Preserving Life and the Vow to Aid Sentient Beings calls for some Buddhists to choose to speak out). People are angry because the people dying of Covid-19 are disproportionately members of economic minorities who have been denied access to good healthcare in the past in many cases, or are otherwise suffering the effects of poverty, including a high incidence of diabetes, heart disease, the effects of drug use, alcoholism and the like. Many also feel singled out by police. If we are inspired by Dogen's vision, nobody should be denied basic access to resources, healthy food, good housing and health care, nor subject to excess violence at the hands of the authorities.

    On the other hand, the police deserve respect from the citizens too, just as Dogen's people of the nation must support the ruler who keeps the law. No, there should never be violence by police which employs excess force. It is wrong, and should be both prevented and punished. On the other hand, the police in doing their jobs are often under tremendous threat, cursed and abused, resulting in a high prevalence of PTSD and the like. Simply put ... everyone should respect everyone, it runs both ways. The police should not employ excess violence, but they should also not be the targets of violence. The police should respect and speak gently with the citizens, the citizens should respect and speak gently with the police.

    Furthermore, violence is wrong in the Buddhist vision, especially when done in anger. It is understandable that people are upset at perceived injustice, and they have reason to protest and make their outrage be heard. However, anger leads to anger, violence to violence. There are ways of civil disobedience that would do better, and be more effective to actually solve the problem: Have a sit down protest in front of the police station, occupy a building (do not burn it down), block a road (but let the ambulances through). Like that. As Dogen said, "kind speech has the power to transform the world."

    Also, in Dogen's view, while everyone in the monastery had to be provided with basic resources and opportunities, there was also great self-responsibility to take care of oneself. Yes, some live in poverty and that should not be. Resources should be available to all, and ideally, equal opportunity. But on the other side, people must take care of themselves, stay clean, off alcohol and drugs, be civil, work hard to improve oneself too. The idea of Karma, that we each personally act for good and bad, is a system of personal self-responsibility too.

    Alas, I fear that what I write above will satisfy nobody, and upset people on all sides. Some will think the Buddhist folks like me should keep out of it. Well, it is all our society and world to share. We have mutual responsibility for each other. We have self responsibility too. We must treat each other with kindness and respect.

    Let us sit for a time in Zazen, beyond me and you, rioters and police, justice and injustice, food and water and any mouth to eat. Then, rising from the cushion, let us work for peace, justice, food and water for all the hungry children, peace between me and you.

    Gassho, Jundo

    STLah
    Last edited by Jundo; 05-31-2020, 01:23 AM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE
  • Onka
    Member
    • May 2019
    • 1575

    #2
    Sorry Jundo but "the police deserve respect from the citizens too" is a step too far for me. I'll always be an Anarchist who follows the Buddha Dharma, not one without the other and not one undermining the other.
    Gassho
    Onka
    Last edited by Onka; 05-30-2020, 06:37 AM. Reason: Interrupted by phone call with blood results (true story)
    穏 On (Calm)
    火 Ka (Fires)
    They/She.

    Comment

    • krissydear
      Member
      • Jul 2019
      • 92

      #3
      Onka, I can appreciate your feelings, and I hear you.

      Jundo, I really needed these words today. They helped me understand my own feelings and thoughts towards this that aligns with my practice.

      Thank you.

      Gassho
      krissy
      sat today


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
      Thank you for teaching me.

      I am very much a beginner and appreciate any words you may give me.

      Comment

      • Jundo
        Treeleaf Founder and Priest
        • Apr 2006
        • 40336

        #4
        Originally posted by Onka
        Sorry Jundo but "the police deserve respect from the citizens too" is a step too far for me. I'll always be an Anarchist who follows the Buddha Dharma, not one without the other and not one undermining the other.
        Gassho
        Onka
        I consider that bordering on hate speech. You deserve respect and so do they. It is not acceptable here.

        One may criticize a police officer who has broken the law or acted unethically, but not all police officers. One may criticize a citizen who has thrown a stone or acted unethically, but not all citizens.

        If a police officer used excessive force, they should be prosecuted and criticized by people who cherish non-violence. If someone throws a stone at a police officer, they should be prosecuted and criticized by people who cherish non-violence.

        Gassho, Jundo

        STLah
        Last edited by Jundo; 05-30-2020, 07:52 AM.
        ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

        Comment

        • Onka
          Member
          • May 2019
          • 1575

          #5
          Bordering hate speech?! Perhaps your encouragement of engaged Buddhism should include some political analysis Jundo, especially when it comes to Police and their role as enforcers of oppression. Out of your whole post I said that part of one sentence I thought was a step too far. One part of one sentence.
          Unbelievable. Bordering hate speech. Really? Maybe take a deep breath Jundo as you encourage me to do, have a cup of tea, read up some political analysis around the role of police, maybe even look up the definition of hate speech and take another look at what I wrote. If you still think it's bordering hate speech I INSIST you report me to the police, feds, whoever else you think should be aware that disagreeing with your definitions is bordering hate speech.
          Gassho
          Onka
          Sat today
          穏 On (Calm)
          火 Ka (Fires)
          They/She.

          Comment

          • Jundo
            Treeleaf Founder and Priest
            • Apr 2006
            • 40336

            #6
            I support the demonstrators and an outraged at any injustice they suffer. I am also outraged at violence. I am outraged at any police officer who uses excessive force. I am also outraged at anger at any police officer who is just trying to do his/her job. We should avoid to criticize a whole group of men and women for doing their TOUGH jobs just because there are some bad apples.

            Maybe it was the time a police officer pulled me out of an overturned car, came when a robber broke in my house when my mother was home, brought her home when she later wandered out of the house in her senility. Maybe it is the police officer who I know in our community who tries to practice Buddhism and once had to kill a man to rescue a child being held hostage. They don't all stand on peoples' necks.

            Sorry, you can criticize the institution if you wish, you can criticize individual officers who go too far, you can criticize the injustices of society as a whole. But do not criticize individual police officers ... some of whom probably rushed to your house when you were ill last week maybe.

            Gassho, Jundo

            STLah
            ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

            Comment

            • vanbui
              Member
              • Dec 2018
              • 111

              #7
              Thank you for your teaching - I agree with your sentiments. There is so much anger everywhere. I have stopped reading the news. I do zazen because as soon as you have a preference, you have deviated from the way - and I can't help anyone when I'm full of anger!

              Gassho
              Van
              Satlah_/\_

              Sent from my HD1913 using Tapatalk
              Last edited by vanbui; 05-31-2020, 08:38 AM.

              Comment

              • Juki
                Member
                • Dec 2012
                • 771

                #8
                Originally posted by Onka
                Sorry Jundo but "the police deserve respect from the citizens too" is a step too far for me. ..."
                Gassho
                Onka
                Respectfully,

                We practice in a tradition in which one of the first ideas that should take root is that nothing is either/or. Everything is both -- always and simultaneously. I'm a Marxist, but I'm also an attorney and thus have been fortunate enough to study and immerse myself in the case law relating to the Constitution of the United States. And yes, I realize that you are not from the States, but Australia has a legal framework that is not dissimilar.

                So, here's the thing that never gets acknowledged when everyone is screaming about their "rights," and it may come as a shock to you: your rights do not exist in a vacuum. With rights come "responsibilities." In the exercise of our rights, each of us has a responsibility and an obligation to go forth in society in a manner that is respectful of our neighbor's rights as well. That includes our personal neighbors, our business neighbors and even our institutional neighbors. Anything less is disrespectful from the start. Anything less is putting yourself before everything and everybody else. So, yes, the police do deserve our respect, just as we deserve respect from them. Much of the breakdown of basic civility in our society stems from the fact that people now view their "rights" as inviolate while simultaneously refusing to acknowledge any responsibilities towards the basic framework and structure of society, of which the police are a part.

                Thank you, Jundo.

                Gassho, Juki

                sat today/lah
                Last edited by Juki; 05-30-2020, 10:47 AM.
                "First you have to give up." Tyler Durden

                Comment

                • Juki
                  Member
                  • Dec 2012
                  • 771

                  #9
                  And on the off chance that some in the sangha may see my views on this matter as uninformed or unenlightened, there are two incidents in my life that brought me to the position i take and i will share them with you now.

                  When I was a very young man, between college and law school, i flew jets in the Air Force. I never wanted to join the military. I was ill suited to the lifestyle, but military service was a family tradition and the economy was awful at the time. Anyway, on the evening of Thursday, January 27, 1983, the Officer's Quarters in which I was living was raided by the military police and I was arrested for possession of marijuana. This was a serious matter in the military, unlike in the civilian world. I was court-martialed and my commanding officer asked the military prosecutor to seek the maximum penalty allowed under military law, which was six years at hard labor in the federal military prison in Fort Leavenworth, Kansas. At the time of my arrest, i was placed in handcuffs with my arms behind my back and made to sit on the floor with my back turned to the officers searching my room. So, I was looking at a wall in my room, kind of like zazen, but not exactly a dharma gate of joy and repose. But I did what I was told to do. And at my court martial, the arresting officers testified that my behavior at the time of arrest was exemplary. I believe that testimony helped me, because I did not get any jail time or other harsh punishment, although I was kicked out of the service on a dishonorable basis.

                  Fast forward 30 years later and I am teaching yoga at a large studio in Tallahassee. One of my students is a nice woman who is married to a police officer. And although he did not practice yoga, i had the chance to meet him and speak with him on a few occasions and he came off as a decent and honorable person. Four years ago, a man intentionally set a house on fire in town and called 911 threatening to burn down other houses around it. So, in addition to the fire department, police were also dispatched to locate the arsonist. My student's husband was the first officer on the scene, and he was killed by the arsonist, who had set the fire and called it in as a means of ambushing the police. He did this because he had a lengthy criminal history and felt he had been treated disrespectfully by the justice system.

                  Our actions are the ground we stand on.

                  Gassho, Juki
                  "First you have to give up." Tyler Durden

                  Comment

                  • Tairin
                    Member
                    • Feb 2016
                    • 2824

                    #10
                    Thank you for this thread Jundo. Thank you Juki for the perspective you brought to the discussion.

                    May we all live in peace.


                    Tairin
                    Sat today and lah
                    泰林 - Tai Rin - Peaceful Woods

                    Comment

                    • Shinshi
                      Treeleaf Unsui
                      • Jul 2010
                      • 3656

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Juki
                      And on the off chance that some in the sangha may see my views on this matter as uninformed or unenlightened, there are two incidents in my life that brought me to the position i take and i will share them with you now.

                      When I was a very young man, between college and law school, i flew jets in the Air Force. I never wanted to join the military. I was ill suited to the lifestyle, but military service was a family tradition and the economy was awful at the time. Anyway, on the evening of Thursday, January 27, 1983, the Officer's Quarters in which I was living was raided by the military police and I was arrested for possession of marijuana. This was a serious matter in the military, unlike in the civilian world. I was court-martialed and my commanding officer asked the military prosecutor to seek the maximum penalty allowed under military law, which was six years at hard labor in the federal military prison in Fort Leavenworth, Kansas. At the time of my arrest, i was placed in handcuffs with my arms behind my back and made to sit on the floor with my back turned to the officers searching my room. So, I was looking at a wall in my room, kind of like zazen, but not exactly a dharma gate of joy and repose. But I did what I was told to do. And at my court martial, the arresting officers testified that my behavior at the time of arrest was exemplary. I believe that testimony helped me, because I did not get any jail time or other harsh punishment, although I was kicked out of the service on a dishonorable basis.

                      Fast forward 30 years later and I am teaching yoga at a large studio in Tallahassee. One of my students is a nice woman who is married to a police officer. And although he did not practice yoga, i had the chance to meet him and speak with him on a few occasions and he came off as a decent and honorable person. Four years ago, a man intentionally set a house on fire in town and called 911 threatening to burn down other houses around it. So, in addition to the fire department, police were also dispatched to locate the arsonist. My student's husband was the first officer on the scene, and he was killed by the arsonist, who had set the fire and called it in as a means of ambushing the police. He did this because he had a lengthy criminal history and felt he had been treated disrespectfully by the justice system.

                      Our actions are the ground we stand on.

                      Gassho, Juki
                      Juki, thank you very much for sharing your stories. The touched me deeply.

                      One thing that I believe is that when we start down the road of Us vs Them, we have stepped off the Bodhisattva path.

                      And thank you for the original Post Jundo.

                      Gassho, Shinshi

                      SaT-LaH
                      Last edited by Shinshi; 05-30-2020, 02:31 PM.
                      空道 心志 Kudo Shinshi
                      There are those who, attracted by grass, flowers, mountains, and waters, flow into the Buddha way.
                      -Dogen
                      E84I - JAJ

                      Comment

                      • Seikan
                        Member
                        • Apr 2020
                        • 712

                        #12
                        Thank you for this Jundo. I saw your similar post on FB and had to stop reading all of the hurtful responses from some of the other members of that Soto group as it was becoming too upsetting to read all at once. I'll go back to that later as I can't hide from the dissenters forever.

                        I agree wholeheartedly that we have to respect everyone's life. When confronted with an individual or group of individuals that arouse a sense of hatred, fear, disgust or another strong negative emotion in me, I try very hard (though certainly not always successful) to take a mental step back and extend compassion towards them.

                        While another's actions or words may make me feel anger, etc. towards them in the moment, I acknowledge to myself that I have not yet walked in their shoes and cannot judge them as a complete human being based on a single moment in time. That would be too harsh on my part. I can (and will) still condemn the action, but I try to keep some space in my heart for the person.

                        On the subject of police, I have had encounters with a wide spectrum of officers. Many have been some of the kindest people I have met. And even the ones that I thought were complete jerks (even bordering on abusive) at the tine, well, I let my emotions run their natural course in my mind, but I also tried to reflect on what brought them to that point in their life.

                        When I see images of protesters screaming an individual police officers doing crowd control (there was one recent photo that has stuck in my mind), I feel compassion for the protesters who are justifiably angry towards the institution of law enforcement, but I also feel compassion towards the individual officers that are standing there, stone faced, taking the verbal abuse as an accepted part of their job. They both deserve my respect and compassion equally.

                        Each if us is a unique individual with a unique story. I just want to honor and respect that. I hope that I'm not oversimplifying this, but I'm having a hard time putting my feelings into words here.


                        Gassho,

                        Rob
                        SatToday



                        Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
                        聖簡 Seikan (Sacred Simplicity)

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                        • Cooperix
                          Member
                          • Nov 2013
                          • 502

                          #13
                          This is a deeply sad and tense time to be living in the U.S.

                          Jundo, your words are wise. We need reminders that violence begets violence.

                          This country (maybe the world) desperately needs a compassionate and wise leader. Someone who can bring us together before the chasm deepens into a permanent schism. I pray for that. Thank you for providing a place of sanity and thoughtful reflections. I long for more of that.

                          Gassho
                          Anne
                          ~st~

                          Comment

                          • Guest

                            #14
                            For Justice & Peace

                            Thank you Jundo. [emoji120][emoji120][emoji120]

                            And thank you everyone for your thoughts and experiences. [emoji120][emoji120][emoji120]

                            Respect and love to all.

                            Ghasso
                            Bobby
                            SatToday


                            Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                            Last edited by Guest; 05-31-2020, 01:23 PM.

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                            • Onka
                              Member
                              • May 2019
                              • 1575

                              #15
                              Jundo "Sorry, you can criticize the institution if you wish, you can criticize individual officers who go too far, you can criticize the injustices of society as a whole. But do not criticize individual police officers ... some of whom probably rushed to your house when you were ill last week maybe."

                              Comrade Jundo
                              While I enjoy reading stories of heroes as much as the next person at no point have I criticised a single cop or even focused on a single cop despite the fact that this thread is in response to citizens protesting yet another killing of an unarmed civilian which has to date resulted in 3 cops being sacked and 1 being charged with murder and manslaughter.
                              Jundo, it is precisely the institution of Police that I am critical of. It's the near militarisation of Police that I am critical of. It is their role as enforcers of oppression that I'm critical of.
                              While rights vs responsibilities was brought up by someone else and I'd love to tear holes through their contribution I'm responding to you Roshi.
                              Onka Fun Fact: Most of the males in my family, both maternal and paternal sides were or are cops or in the military. The ones in.the military were mostlu military cops. I really am the black flag waving sheep of the family and have never hidden my politics or opinions from them.
                              So yes Jundo and others I do know individual cops. Even outside of my family I know and actually really like a couple of cops. As individuals out of uniform.
                              I actually think that a lot of people want to be cops in order to serve their community. The culture of policing is the problem and those with noble intent get eitherburnt out or swept up in the culture. Outside of my family, the cops I know joined because they believed they could change the police culture from within. One eventually became a riot cop but left with PTSD in disgust at the increasing militarisation of pòlicing. The other somehow (no-one knows how) managed to make it to Sergeant of an inner city station but refuses to wear a gun unless his bosses are around because he feels that carrying weapons is a disproportionate use of power. To be fair, I used to train with him and he doesn't need to carry weapons lol.
                              Take out the political analysis of the role of police around the world as enforcers of oppression Jundo and unfortunately you're still left with a police culture that is rooted in violence against unarmed citizens. This is not made up stuff. If you had access to all academic databases from around the world it would take many lifetimes to read all of the peer reviewed academic papers on the institution of policing and its role as enforcers of oppression or police cultures.
                              This is reality.
                              As for my interactions with police... I avoid them. I don't call the cops and don't believe that communities need cops in order to function. I'll even go so far as to say that if you think that communities can't function without cops then maybe it's time for a good hard look in the mirror and ask yourself what kind of community do you want to live in.
                              As a reminder Jundo at no point ever have I singled out one particular person who happens to make a living from oppressing others. I stated words to the effect that I disagreed with your statement that police deserve respect. Nothing more. Nothing less.
                              I honestly believe that you misinterpreted my response to your overall decent opening post. Furthermore I still believe you and I have more in common than not so would be happy to draw the line here and move forward focusing on things that unite communities rather than the things that can divide communities.

                              Finally I'm sure there's some keyboard warriors out there itching to add their 2c to an interaction between Jundo and myself. Don't bother because I have chosen to take the road of peace and won't be engaging further on this thread.

                              For Anarchy and Peace
                              Gassho
                              Onka
                              ST
                              穏 On (Calm)
                              火 Ka (Fires)
                              They/She.

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