For Justice & Peace

[Ryumon]

And this is where I part ways with Brad Warner. On Twitter, he said:

"I do not support the #laprotest in any way shape or form."

His white privilege has been increasingly apparent in the past few days. He's a smart guy about some things, but for others, he's like a child.

Gashho,

Kirk

sat

[Ryumon]

I’m seeing that Antifa and white supremacy groups have gotten involved in Minneapolis. This has essentially become a proxy war between left wing and right wing radicals with residents caught in the middle. Most of the arrests last night where people from out of state. White Supremacists are starting the fires, undercover cops seem to be smashing windows and stoking violence (there are videos, one in particular of a guy in a gas mask and an umbrella), it’s becoming hard to make heads or tails out of what’s going on.

From what I'm reading, it looks like white nationalist groups are taking advantage of the situation to foment violence, with a serious goal of a second civil war. This is what Amerika has become. I cry for my native country.

Gassho,

Kirk

sat

[Jundo]

From what I'm reading, it looks like white nationalist groups are taking advantage of the situation to foment violence, with a serious goal of a second civil war. This is what Amerika has become. I cry for my native country.

Gassho,

Kirk

sat

l was just going to mention this. Maybe Antifa too on the other end, trying to stir up trouble.

Also, we cannot hold the many peaceful protesters responsible for the acts of a few hotheads, extremists, looters and the like. The media tends to focus on the exciting images of fire and broken windows, looting and the like. The handful of trouble makers get attention, and cause damage, far beyond their numbers. The white nationalists/antifa might be taking advantage of this too. The situation is still very unclear, but of course, the peaceful marchers don't get as much attention.

Gassho, Jundo

STLah

[Jakuden]

This is what could happen if divisive thinking was abandoned.

https://nj1015.com/camden-police-march-with-protesters-in-strong-message-of-unity-opinion/

Gassho
Jakuden
SatToday




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[Naiko]

I am grateful for this discussion and the many perspectives offered here. It has been a difficult week and I have shed many tears. I am repelled by the images and reports of violence. My first impulse is to wish only for peace, for peaceful protests. And as I whisper to myself that violence will never solve anything I also feel myself questioning if that is true. When I reflect I must acknowledge that part of my discomfort is due to me being uncomfortable with the rage and that I would rather not face it, not acknowledge the pain, grief and rage. I “know” (or think I do) about systemic racism, but I don’t want to KNOW it. I realize that I have the luxury of peaceful resistance because my skin color means my voice has a chance of being heard, that our justice system doesn’t automatically penalize me.

MLK said riots happen when voices go unheard. Trevor Noah recently said, when you see looting, try to remember that every day black bodies are being looted. I recently read a blog post by a man who lives not far from me. He’s a college professor. Recently while intending to buy a burrito before his next class, he was detained by a large number of police officers because he “fit the description” of someone who had reportedly tried to rob a white woman. Although his college ID was around his neck, and he had other ID and his car keys and car parked nearby, the officers would not take his word and that evidence as proof of his innocence. They would not hear him. They required only the word of that white woman to clear him. He was absolutely terrified and profoundly humiliated. He related that the only way he was able to stay calm was because an older black woman had stopped across the street to bear witness, to make sure he was ok. And when it was over and she walked him back to his car, she hugged him until he stopped shaking and crying.

I guess what I’m trying to get at in my ramblings is that, while I do not condone violence, I think I understand the rage and that violence might be all you have when the laws of society, the promise of society, don’t seem to include you and I think I have to turn to face it. I don’t want it to be too easy to ignore the why of it. I found this essay gave me much to consider. https://www.counterpunch.org/2020/05...-and-race-war/

I have no answers, just a lot to sit with.
Gassho,
Krista
st/lah

[Jundo]

I would like to keep the focus on social justice AND peace & non-violence.

Apart from that, let us sit Zazen. Silently.

After Zazen, let us get up, make our society better, work to right some wrongs, but always employing peace & non-violence.

Rather than looking at the events themselves, let us sit silently, try to make the world better, advocate for peace. Beyond that, not much more to say.

We must somehow rise above this, not merely discuss it like everyone else today. Me too.

Gassho, Jundo

STLah

[Ryumon]

I know everyone is getting sick of me on here but I have one more point and it may be an unpopular opinion: I wish protesters carried the flag right side up, opened with the pledge of allegiance and closed with singing the Star Spangled Banner. It is beyond audacious to assume people that treat other American’s as less of a vote (they *have* been slowly fighting to have major cities count for less of a vote with considerable sucess) and treat people as below them due to race and/or political views would claim the flag as their own. But they do and it sickens me because these symbols represent the principles and institutions of America (read: liberal ideals of justice, equality and freedom as well as democracy.) We should brandish and cherish them. It might have been more effective at bringing the reactionaries to our side if they saw the images of people marching with American flags next to BLM ones. I would have done it myself but I didn’t simply because it sadly would send the opposite message I’d want to convey.

As Jundo said, an upside-down flag is an international sign of distress. I think they are using the symbol correctly in this case.

As for the pledge of allegiance, it is not devoid of an oppressive history. And the Star Spangled Banner? Well, it glorifies bloody war, as many national anthems do, and also condones slavery:

And where is that band who so vauntingly swore
That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion,
A home and a country, should leave us no more?
Their blood has washed out their foul footsteps' pollution.
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight, or the gloom of the grave:
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave,
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

You want symbols? Look at the police dressed like Terminators, attacking non-violent protestors. Tell the dead black people about "justice, equality, and freedom." The people who wrap themselves in flags today are the same ones who have been lynching black people for centuries and claim to be the true patriots. They are the neo-Nazis who are armed to the teeth, with a desire to annihilate the entire black race:

Far-Right Extremists Are Hoping to Turn the George Floyd Protests Into a New Civil War

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/pkyb9b/far-right-extremists-are-hoping-to-turn-the-george-floyd-protests-into-a-new-civil-war

Just saying...

Gassho,

Kirk

sat

[Jundo]

More to my comment above, I would like to refocus this discussion ...

One thing that is strange about a Zen Sangha is that we have to somehow leap beyond all the complex debate and "right and wrong" of this world. So, maybe some discussion of what's going on, and who is "right and wrong" would belong in an ordinary discussion on the internet, but maybe we have to look beyond a bit. So, I might suggest that we have to keep somehow focused on seeing something transcendent of all this.

It is tough for me too, I am not sure how to do that always. Maybe we have to place ourselves beyond the normal discussion. Am I wrong in that?

For me, I say that all people deserve a safe and healthy life AND peace and non-violence, and I don't say much more than that.

It's weird. One can very concerned about the oppressed and social injustice. One can be very concerned about non-violence. Yet. as Zen folks, our way is not to chat about it so much. Maybe more important is to just bow and do.

Gassho, J

STLah

[Ryumon]

I honestly don't know how to respond to what's happening. It's bad enough that we have a pandemic, that the United States has a white supremacist as president, but watching the past few days as peaceful protestors have been beaten and gassed is incredibly painful. Just two examples that I saw videos of this morning: one was a 9-year old girl in Seattle who got maced, another was an elderly man with a cane, who looked like he was waiting for a bus, got pushed to the ground by police. The levels of violence from the police, condoned by the president, are inexcusable. It's beyond a level of non-violent insurrection. There are only so many times people can be beaten.

At the same time, I can't help but think that all this is the result of delusion, but you can't cut through the pain and anger to get to that point because so many black people have suffered for so long. And because the police in the US have gotten so incredibly violent that they do this with impunity; just look at how many videos there are now of police beating and killing black people.

Yet in some cities, the mayors and the chiefs of police have taken a different tack, and have joined the demonstrators, and there is no violence, only a shared sense of purpose.

If you haven't yet heard this speech, this man is a true bodhisattva (though I think his message would be a bit better without the Kill Your Masters on his t-shirt.)

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/killer-mike-speech-atlanta-protestors-press-conference-1007816/

Just an aside: many people have pointed out many times just how white zen is - at least in the US - and I really wonder what we're doing wrong.

Gassho,

Kirk

Sat

[Jundo]

I honestly don't know how to respond to what's happening. It's bad enough that we have a pandemic, that the United States has a white supremacist as president, but watching the past few days as peaceful protestors have been beaten and gassed is incredibly painful. Just two examples that I saw videos of this morning: one was a 9-year old girl in Seattle who got maced, another was an elderly man with a cane, who looked like he was waiting for a bus, got pushed to the ground by police. The levels of violence from the police, condoned by the president, are inexcusable. It's beyond a level of non-violent insurrection. There are only so many times people can be beaten.

At the same time, I can't help but think that all this is the result of delusion, but you can't cut through the pain and anger to get to that point because so many black people have suffered for so long. And because the police in the US have gotten so incredibly violent that they do this with impunity; just look at how many videos there are now of police beating and killing black people.

Yet in some cities, the mayors and the chiefs of police have taken a different tack, and have joined the demonstrators, and there is no violence, only a shared sense of purpose.

If you haven't yet heard this speech, this man is a true bodhisattva (though I think his message would be a bit better without the Kill Your Masters on his t-shirt.)

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/killer-mike-speech-atlanta-protestors-press-conference-1007816/

Just an aside: many people have pointed out many times just how white zen is - at least in the US - and I really wonder what we're doing wrong.

Gassho,

Kirk

Sat

I think that we need to keep the discussion simpler. All pain, violence, abuse is bad whoever is doing so. Everyone deserves to live in safety and peace, in a safe neighborhood and without being scared.

I think that Zen folks can only offer that, trying to keep everyone's eyes on higher ends.

Gassho, J

STLah

[Jippou]

For Justice & Peace

https://mobile.twitter.com/tkerssen/status/1266921821653385225?s=20

National guard firing on people on their porches on their own property. Clearly a violation of constitutional rights.

Gassho, Jason
Sat today


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[Horin]

They seem to have the autopsy results and say it's not death caused by the officer.. but health issues of George Floyd ... I feel it's like a bad joke

https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/may/29/george-floyd-died-police-restraint-combined-health/

Gassho
Ben

Slah

Enviado desde mi PLK-L01 mediante Tapatalk

[Jundo]

Constitutional rights should be protected, excessive force should not be used by officials, those who do violence should be prosecuted. Good police officers should not be considered the same as those who do wrong. All victims of violence are recalled in our hearts. Peaceful protests should be honored, trouble makers should be condemned.

The system needs to be fixed, social injustices need to be remedied, violence in anger should be avoided.

Now, let us sit.

Gassho, J

STLah

[bukowski]

Hi Rev. Jundo.

Thank you for your calming words. I have been listenning to all of your beginers practice talks since i joined the sangha a couple of months ago, (just studying in the background )

I needed some reminders in my practice, and they really helped. Very specifically i liked your explanation around accepting situations as they are, whilst at the same time doing all we can to improve the situations we are subject to. These views are not in conflict from my understanding, and indeed they seem to me to be the essence of the middle way, being neither driven by resistance or acceptance.

So, today i fully support your directive that, " Constitutional right should be protected, excessive force should not be used by officials, those who do violence should be prosecuted. Good police officers should not be considered the same as those who do wrong. All victims of violence are recalled in our hearts. Peaceful protests should be honored, trouble makers should be condemned.

The system needs to be fixed, social injustices need to be remedied, violence in anger should be avoided.

Now, let us sit.

Metta, b, (sorry, i have edited this post to say that i have sat today.)

[Dosho]

Thank you all for this thread.



Gassho