My Cancer Ango - 8 - What's A "Real" Zen Retreat?

[Jinyo]

Hi Jundo, I think it goes without saying that we all agree with you regarding the AZTA and SZBA.

Right now - watching the video - I just want to respectfully and caringly say 'Please Slow Down.'

Perhaps we can get too tied up altogether with the notion of what constitutes a retreat? We all know in our hearts when our lives involve the essence of
a spiritual retreat - which really emphasises focus - not necessarily retreat from the external world. Maybe focus on helping others - or single minded focus on simply surviving if we are ill or caught up in a mentally challenging situation. Everything that flows into our lives flows out in a positive way if we choose to use it to
learn and develop our spiritual practice.

I agree with Jishin - and as much as I respect/appreciate tradition I'd like to radicalize more - starting with a robeless Zen .... but what do I know?



Willow

ST

[Tenrai]

...just to add, my Ango and Jukai experiences have definitely helped me cope with some very difficult situations caring for patients up here. Without Treeleaf I am pretty sure I could have wilted over these last weeks.
So..... Thank you again for making this practice available to us scattered folk

[Chishou]

I understand why some might dislike TL as It is a non-traditional sangha. People don’t like change.

Now, I think TL is a fantastic idea, to bring the teachings to all being in all directions is something I am sure the Buddha would approve of.

My only problem for my personally, I feel the Dharma should have a face to face component in some way. As someone who wants to deeps my practise and potentially in the future become an Unsui, I feel I would like to meet face-to-face with the teacher at times during my studies.

As always, a balance must be struck. The old ways much adapt and the new must remember the old. Perhaps ad this sangha develops, monks/unsui/senior laity can organise sitting groups and retreats to strengthen the bonds between ours.

Deeps bows to those in needs,

Simon
Sat


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[Kyonin]

Thank you Jundo.

Sat with you and will keep on sitting with you. Your smile makes me happy

Gassho,

Kyonin

[Rich]

Thanks Jundo. Nice to hear you.

No us and them now
Sitting silently in space
Seabirds returning

SAT today


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[Shinzan]

Thank you, Jundo.

As the Kalama Sutta says, go with what works, not by tradition/books/gurus/hearsay etc. Go with what does good and benefits people and the world.
_/\_
sattoday

[Tairin]

The biggest lesson I have received from TreeLeaf is the statement "All of Life is our Temple". It is from TreeLeaf that I really learned that Zen is everyday, is every moment. It changed my perspective. I don't need to "retreat". I need to embrace it all. Sure, there are times when it is good to sit extra long and engage in a more intensive, immersive period but we do that here as the recent Rohatsu demonstrated. Plus TreeLeaf doesn't exclude going to a brick&mortar temple if one chooses. I can't speak for the quality of the training our Unsui receive but Jundo and they all appear to be very diligent and motivated people so I have no reason to doubt.

Just my 2cents

Good to see you getting your strength back Jundo.


Warren
Sat today

[Shugen]

Nice to see you Jundo.

Gassho,

Shugen

Sattoday/LAH


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[Shinshi]

Others have already put forth my thoughts, likely better than I. So I will just add

Jundo I find your talks unlike anything else I have encountered in that I am both highly entertained and extremely inspired at the same time.

There is an expression here in the Western US: If you are green you are growing, if you are ripe you are rotting. When people, or organizations, get too ripe they calcify and start to rot.

I find Zen more really alive here at Treeleaf - and I think that is because Treeleaf is still growing. And growing in new and important ways. It is robust and moving forward. It feels to me like some of these organizations want to keep things as they are. They feel Zen is all figured out and needs to stay in its little box.

I am still in the process of seeing the beauty of traditional forms and procedures. The bowing and the specifics of movement. I have come to appreciate the ritual. But again, to me, Zen starts to whither and die when it becomes all about the structure, the forms, the procedures.

I am very thankful for Treeleaf.

Gassho, Allan

SaT-LaH

[lorax]

Jundo, what a gift we received today as you visited with us from your hospital bed, sharing what is really an Ango retreat. I have to say there were tears in my eyes seeing you and hearing you talk. It really demonstrates how life is always changing and our conditions impermanent. That is not a negative observation for it was just days ago we could see in Mina' s writing's how worried she was. Such a wonderful change. Don't fret about loosing parts. It is wonderful how the body works around such things. Thank you for reaffirming that we are observing Ango and carrying out our retreats in the manner that is wholly correct within our individual circumstances. I remember when I was young and went to church with friends and they were about to take communion. When I got up to follow them I was informed I could not do that because I was not baptized in their church. Ah structure and tradition with no account as to what is within ones heart.

SAT TODAY

[Jundo]

Hi,

Zen is evolving. 10 years ago an online sangha was more controversial. Jundo’s teacher got dharma transmission despite being viewed as non conventional by some. I don’t think we have to placate anyone. This is the future and its happening right now. If it’s not fully accepted it will soon be. How could it not? We no longer live in caves. Tradition is important but we are now tradition. We have our own and others will follow. I am tired of the feeling that we have to prove anything anymore. I think that if and when the priests in training get transmission not only will they be capable but they will also have a following of students to pass down the tree of knowledge.

My pissed off 2 cents.

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

I treasure your "pissed offs," one of my own canaries in the coal mine.

Gassho, J

STLah

[Jundo]

Jundo, what a gift we received today as you visited with us from your hospital bed, sharing what is really an Ango retreat. I have to say there were tears in my eyes seeing you and hearing you talk. It really demonstrates how life is always changing and our conditions impermanent. That is not a negative observation for it was just days ago we could see in Mina' s writing's how worried she was. Such a wonderful change. Don't fret about loosing parts. It is wonderful how the body works around such things. Thank you for reaffirming that we are observing Ango and carrying out our retreats in the manner that is wholly correct within our individual circumstances. I remember when I was young and went to church with friends and they were about to take communion. When I got up to follow them I was informed I could not do that because I was not baptized in their church. Ah structure and tradition with no account as to what is within ones heart.

SAT TODAY

Thanks to everyone for helpful words.

I would particularly like to thank Shozan, whom a Texas hurricane prevented me from meeting a few months ago (I fled to Jishin's house!), but whom I meet each day. This guy, a volcano expert in his past life, has taught me more about getting through all life's eruptions, including health stuff, than about anyone I can name.

Gassho, J

STLAH

[Jundo]

Treeleaf, has allowed me to join a sangha, practice with others, learn, taught me self discipline to follow commitments. I could not possibly attend a long retreat, i am the only medic here on this little island. So without Treeleaf and it's openness I would be adrift.
These organisations that criticise this approach would in effect be turning their backs on potential wonderful priests because of physical, geographical or service obstacles. I do not recall a teaching instructing such actions?
Go Treeleaf.....thank you Jundo.

Wonderful to hear you after your little lay down in hospital


Gassho
Richard
Sat today

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One of the folks from the "mainstream" wrote me (not about you, but about my doctor example), that folks in the medical profession take vacations all the time for weddings and conferences and such. I said that that is not always so ...

In case you are wondering, one example of "new rules" is the following ...

The standards in this document define the minimum level of proficiency required for full membership in the --- Association (A). These standards are in addition to the previously established requirements for membership, which are:
1) Ordination and dharma transmission in a recognized .... Zen lineage (with ceremonies conducted in-person and according to the tradition of the lineage);
2) Submission of an application and registration fee;
3) Payment of annual dues;
4) Agreement to abide by and be held accountable to the ----A Ethics Statement;
5) Submission of an Ethics Statement to which the member agrees to abide and be held accountable, and which meets the criteria listed in the ----A Ethics Statement.


....

[Definition]
Formal Practice Intensive: A period of residential practice and training that meets criteria for a formal practice intensive as established by an --- A training committee. This would be a 3-week to 90-day period that involves a 24-hour schedule of continuous practice.


Training: At least one 90-day formal practice intensive that meets the criteria established by the ---A training committee. Priests-in-training who demonstrate an inability to fulfill the 90 day requirement may alternately complete four three-week formal practice intensives that also meet the criteria established by the -----A training committee.

Gassho, J

SatTodayLAH

[Chishou]

Why is it important to be recognised by the American Zen thingy peoples? Surely the more important organisation is Soto-shu? Unless... dum, dum, DUM! Jundo is a big faker!!!!

Simon
Sat?


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[Jundo]

Why is it important to be recognised by the American Zen thingy peoples? Surely the more important organisation is Soto-shu? Unless... dum, dum, DUM! Jundo is a big faker!!!!

Simon
Sat?


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Oh boy.

Maybe half of respected American Zen priests are recognized by Soto-shu, the rest don't care. Nishijima was a Soto-shu Priest, and his Teacher Niwa Zenji was the "Pope" of Soto-shu and Abbot of Dogen's Temple Eiheiji. But Nishijima was a critic of Soto-shu, and felt that they had lost their way in not emphasizing Zazen enough, not bringing things out into the world, and an overemphasis on training young men to inherit their father's temple to continue "funeral culture" and the performance of lucrative ancestor ceremonies. Soto shu did not care, as Nishijima was a mosquito on their rump.

I had my Ordination registered with Soto shu, but Dharma Transmission is between Teacher and Student. I would not seek any approval from Soto shu, nor need any, and in some way I am sure that my having a Zazen group in Japan violates their rules. No sweat. Further, They don't care, as I am another mosquito on their rump.

Gassho, J

SatTodayLAH