My Cancer Ango - 8 - What's A "Real" Zen Retreat?

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  • Jundo
    Treeleaf Founder and Priest
    • Apr 2006
    • 40325

    My Cancer Ango - 8 - What's A "Real" Zen Retreat?

    Hi All,

    Thank you again for all the continued good feelings and wisdom. Doctors seem to think that I have a few more years around this whirl of Samsara. I need some months to get back to full energy, and some parts are gone for good. Alas, such is precisely Samsara.

    Here is my latest talk from the hospital bed. Recently, several Zen Organizations such as the American Zen Teachers Association and the Soto Zen Buddhist Association have been cracking down on the road to Priesthood as recognized and approved by those Organizations, imposing requirements for a certain flavor of "formal" residential retreat lasting many weeks or months at a stretch, in order to qualify for those organizations. In general, I support it. The only problem, however, is the kind of community I serve. I know excellent priests and priest candidates who could never get away for weeks and months because, well, for example, some are severely disabled and it is just a physical hardship or impossibility. There are the poor, including minority candidates (not all minority candidates are poor, of course, but many are), the struggling parent of a special needs kid who could (and would love to) get away but cannot abandon her kid's need for daily contact, the medical practitioner who can't leave his cancer patients (I am glad that my own doctor did not go off on some Retreat)!

    I was told to go shout up a tree. (Without breaching any confidences, so I can only speak in very general terms), I was told that a "real" retreat has to look like this, where one learns how to tie fancy knots and do fancy dance moves reciting fancy foreign or antique words rarely fully understood ...


    ... or this ...


    ... or this, where people drive up in their BMW's, sit Zazen and do some Yoga, eat some Tofu and "get away" ...


    I support ALL those kinds of Retreats if they ring someone's bell. Further, people should experience all that if they can. Don't think I am saying that one size fits all.

    But (and here is the Koan): What of those folks who cannot "get away" from the Truth right here, there and everywhere, and just "What" is there to get away from? How about the victims of illness who face the questions of Life and Death and Impermanence while actually facing death, the Kannon who explores self-sacrifice and giving in service to the sick child, the victim of violence who overcame violence? (I will tell you more about these people in the coming days). Of course, just having such experiences in life is not enough, but should be combined with Zen Training, our Teachings (Zazen and Dogen for Soto folks), facing Birth and Death, Impermanence, Suffering (in contrast to the mere pain I presently well know), Aging and Sickness and Emptiness as all such. One can study Dogen at the child's bedside or in the mountains, learn the true meaning of "greed anger ignorance" as the source of one's past abuse or by being in the aggressive kind of environment that books like "Eat Sleep Sit" describe ....

    Eiheiji’s reputation as the toughest Zen training center in Japan is born out in this memoir...after Nonomura passes through the Dragon Gate with seven other acolytes (three of whom will end up in the hospital within the first six months), he enters a kind of “boot-camp” hell...


    One can recite the Heart Sutra while in front of an Altar made of Gold, or while digging through earthquake rubble with one's hands looking for signs of one's missing daughter.

    Then, one is Training to be an excellent Zen Priest, and one is walking the Real Road. Each Sits their own "Real" Retreat.

    How about if we made a little tiny room for ALL such wonderful priests and teachers, both the traditional, the mainstream Western and the "hands on the world" types. All can be excellent, caring, ethical Zen Priests.

    Anyway, it is Visiting Hours here in the Cancer Ward, so please pull up a chair for a few minutes and let's chat ... I hope I make you smile too ...


    Gassho, Jundo

    SatTodayLAH
    Last edited by Jundo; 12-22-2017, 11:24 AM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE
  • moyomoy
    Member
    • Nov 2017
    • 27

    #2
    Hi Jundo,

    It’s very good to hear you’ll be around for many years to come!

    We need many questions and teachings!

    I see “Retreats” can help facilitate our practice with less distractions, and help beginners like me have a more direct relationship with the Teacher and sangha.
    But our motivation shouldn’t be for escaping from anything, but rather to cultivate gratitude to be on an environment that will help our practice.
    We may realize that in nature we are even more connected with an infinity of life forms, so I we are thinking from escaping from anything, like crowed of people, we will realize that other beings hanging around too!

    For formalities, I guess, it’s the middle path right?? Keep it formal as a retreat without loosing the direction on either way.

    Gassho,

    Moy


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    • moyomoy
      Member
      • Nov 2017
      • 27

      #3
      Sorry for my broken grammar,

      English not my first language,

      Gassho

      Moy


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

      Comment

      • Judith del Carmen
        Member
        • Nov 2015
        • 21

        #4
        All life is our temple
        Gassho

        Comment

        • Mp

          #5
          Even from your bed, a lovely teaching ... thank you my dear Jundo. =)

          Gassho
          Shingen

          Sat/LAH

          Comment

          • Jippou
            Member
            • Dec 2017
            • 111

            #6
            This really hits on some of the angst I see from some Zen teachers that Zen in the United States is an exercise in "white privilege" and a playground for the well off who can afford to spend so much time at retreats and the like. It's amazing how attached to forms people who are practicing not being attached to forms can be. I think Jundo may be on to something here. I have to confess, I did "check him out" before I joined, but as I watch through the videos and read through the posts I don't regret that I did.

            Gassho
            Jason

            Sat Today

            Comment

            • Jishin
              Member
              • Oct 2012
              • 4821

              #7
              Hi,

              Zen is evolving. 10 years ago an online sangha was more controversial. Jundo’s teacher got dharma transmission despite being viewed as non conventional by some. I don’t think we have to placate anyone. This is the future and its happening right now. If it’s not fully accepted it will soon be. How could it not? We no longer live in caves. Tradition is important but we are now tradition. We have our own and others will follow. I am tired of the feeling that we have to prove anything anymore. I think that if and when the priests in training get transmission not only will they be capable but they will also have a following of students to pass down the tree of knowledge.

              My pissed off 2 cents.

              Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

              Comment

              • aprapti
                Member
                • Jun 2017
                • 889

                #8
                thanks Jundo. Your story about these people made me smile..
                i am afraid they would not accept master Ikkyu too:

                My Retirement from Nioi-an with a Poem for Yoso

                After ten days in this temple, my mind is spinning—
                The “red thread of passion” is very strong in my loins,
                if you wish to locate me another day,
                Look in the fish stall, the sake shop or the brothel!



                coos
                std
                Last edited by aprapti; 12-22-2017, 05:17 AM.

                hobo kore dojo / 歩歩是道場 / step, step, there is my place of practice

                Aprāpti (अप्राप्ति) non-attainment

                Comment

                • Meishin
                  Member
                  • May 2014
                  • 816

                  #9


                  Gassho
                  Meishin
                  Sat today lah

                  Comment

                  • Zenmei
                    Member
                    • Jul 2016
                    • 270

                    #10
                    Who are these people attacking our way and why should we care? What we do is what we do and Jishin is right, we have nothing to prove to anyone.

                    It doesn’t matter what the AZTA or SZBA or Soto-shu says about this real life practice. The only effect those organizations have on my real life is the effect they have on my teacher, and beyond that they are completely insignificant. The SZBA has as much influence on me as the school board of Muncie, Indiana.

                    Gassho, Zenmei (sat)


                    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

                    Comment

                    • Tenrai
                      Member
                      • Aug 2017
                      • 112

                      #11
                      Treeleaf, has allowed me to join a sangha, practice with others, learn, taught me self discipline to follow commitments. I could not possibly attend a long retreat, i am the only medic here on this little island. So without Treeleaf and it's openness I would be adrift.
                      These organisations that criticise this approach would in effect be turning their backs on potential wonderful priests because of physical, geographical or service obstacles. I do not recall a teaching instructing such actions?
                      Go Treeleaf.....thank you Jundo.

                      Wonderful to hear you after your little lay down in hospital


                      Gassho
                      Richard
                      Sat today

                      Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

                      Comment

                      • Eishuu

                        #12
                        Great to hear your voice getting stronger.

                        I agree with Jishin...why should we placate anyone. I also agree with Jason about privilege, which is being talked about more and more. What you are doing on Treeleaf, making Zen accessible to so many of us, is incredible. It's changed my life. The priests here training exactly where they are in their life circumstances, whatever they are, are an inspiration.

                        Thank you Jundo.

                        Gassho
                        Lucy
                        ST/LAH
                        Last edited by Guest; 12-22-2017, 10:27 AM.

                        Comment

                        • Byokan
                          Treeleaf Unsui
                          • Apr 2014
                          • 4289

                          #13


                          Gassho
                          Byōkan
                          sat + lah
                          展道 渺寛 Tendō Byōkan
                          Please take my words with a big grain of salt. I know nothing. Wisdom is only found in our whole-hearted practice together.

                          Comment

                          • Chishou
                            Member
                            • Aug 2017
                            • 204

                            #14
                            Its hard for me to say why, but watching this has brought me a lot of joy today.

                            Love to all beings,

                            Simon
                            Sat.


                            Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                            Ask not what the Sangha can do for you, but what you can do for your Sangha.

                            Comment

                            • Ryudo
                              Member
                              • Nov 2015
                              • 424

                              #15

                              I am glad you are recouvering well.
                              Thank you.

                              Gassho
                              Marcus
                              SatToday
                              流道
                              Ryū Dou

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