May 1st-2nd, 2020 - OUR MONTHLY 4-hour Treeleaf ZAZENKAI - Commencing Spring Retreat!

**Jundo** · 04-30-2020, 07:39 AM

Today we will reflect on passages from Master Dogen's Shobogenzo-Shunjū (Spring and Autumn):

Great Master Tōzan Gohon [Dongshan], the story goes, is asked by a monk, “When cold or heat come, how are we to avoid them?”
The master says, “Why do you not go to the place without cold and heat?”
The monk says, “What is the place without cold and heat?”
The master says “When it is cold, kill the ācārya [monk/you] with cold. When it is hot, kill the ācārya with heat.”

[Dogen comments:] ... Many Buddhist ancestors of the past and present, in the Western Heavens [India] and in the Eastern Lands [China], have seen this story as their real features [their real essence, the real deal]. ... That being so, we should clarify in detail. the monk’s question, “When cold or heat come, how are we to avoid them?” That means the study in experience of the very moment in which cold has come and of the very moment in which heat has come. Both the totality of cold and the totality of heat, in this “cold and heat,” are cold and heat themselves. Because they are cold and heat themselves, when they have come, they have come from the very [summit] of cold and heat themselves, and they are manifest from the very eye of cold and heat themselves. This eye is the place without cold and heat. In these very eyes is the place without cold and heat.

The founding ancestor’s [Dongshan] words, “When it is cold, kill the ācārya with cold. When it is hot, kill the ācārya with heat” are about the situation just at the moment of having arrived. “When it is cold,” the expression is “killing with cold,” but “when it is hot,” “killing with heat” need not always be the expression. Cold is utterly cold, and heat is utterly hot. Even if you try millions of times to avoid cold and heat, it is like trying to put a tail where the head is. ...

---

Zen Master Jōin Kōboku ... says:
“Some among the sangha interpret this as follows: “This monk’s question has fallen into the relative already. Dongshan’s answer returns to the absolute. ... ” Interpretations like this not only blaspheme the ancient saints but also daunt the perpetrators themselves. ... “A jeweled tower is a nest for a kingfisher, but a golden palace offers no shelter to a mandarin duck.”

[Dogen comments:] If the Buddha-Dharma were transmitted and received on the basis of limited consideration of the relative and the absolute, how could it have reached the present day? Wild kittens, barnyard bumpkins, who have never explored Dongshan’s inner sanctum ... People who have not walked the threshold of the truth of the Buddha-Dharma, mistakenly assert that Dongshan teaches people with his five positions of the relative and the absolute ... We should not see or hear it. We should just investigate the fact that the founding ancestor possesses the right Dharma-eye treasury.

---

Zen Master Wanshi [Hongzhi] says ... :
“This episode, if we discuss it, is like a game of go between two players. If you do not respond to my move, I will fool you completely. If we experience it like this, we will begin to understand [Donghsan’s]’s intention.”

[Dogen comments:] Not denying the “game of go,” for the present, how are the “two players”? [T]he game of go is one player and an opponent meeting each other. Even so, we should mindfully consider, and should physically master, the state now expressed by Wanshi as “you do not respond to my move.” “You do not respond to my move” says “you can never be me.” ... In mud there is mud [and covers us from heat to toe] ... In a pearl there is a pearl: when it shines it illuminates others and it illuminates itself.

---

Zen Master Engo says:
A bowl rolls around a pearl, and the pearl rolls around the bowl. The absolute in the relative, the relative in the absolute.
Of the antelope, carrying its horns, there is no trace. Hunting hounds circle the forest and emptily skulk.

[Dogen comments:] The present expression “a bowl rolls around a pearl” is unprecedented and inimitable, it has rarely been heard in eternity. Hitherto, [people] have spoken only as if the pearl rolling in the bowl were ceaseless. The antelope is now holding up its horns in the emptiness. And the forest is now circling the hunting hounds.

---

Master Shutaku says:
Amid the relative exists the absolute; amid the absolute, the relative.
Thousands of centuries floating downstream in the human world.
How many times I have hoped to return, but to return has been impossible.
Before my gate, as ever, weeds are growing in abundance.

[Dogen comments:] He also cannot help mentioning the absolute and the relative, and yet he has picked up something. Not denying that he has picked up something, what is it that, “in the middle of the relative, exists”

---

Master Busshō says:
Thanks to you, I have penetrated the place without cold or heat.
A withered tree has bloomed again.
Laughable people who mark their boat in looking for a sword,
Still today are in cold ashes.

[Dogen comments:] This expression has just enough power to [crush the fundamental point underfoot while raising it overhead]

---

... Zen Master Kazan Buttō says:
“Dongshan spoke of the place without cold and heat. Numerous Zen people have lost their way there. When it is cold I get in front of a fire, and when it is hot I employ means of keeping cool. All my life I am able to avoid and escape cold and heat.”

[Dogen comments:] [H]is words are like those of a small child. Even so, in “All my life I am able to avoid and escape cold and heat,” there may be a hint of future mature realization. In that case, “all my life” means “with my whole life,” and “escaping cold and heat” means getting free of body and mind.

In conclusion, although masters from many districts and in many ages have devoted themselves to flapping their lips like this, offering their eulogies to the ancients, they have never glimpsed the periphery of the founding ancestor [Dongshan]. The reason, if asked, is that they do not know what cold and heat are in the everyday life of a Buddhist ancestor, and so they randomly speak, for example, of “employing means of keeping cool and getting in front of a fire.” It is especially pitiful that you [Shujun], though in the vicinity of venerable ancestors, have not heard what “cold and heat” means. We should regret that the ancestral master’s truth has died out. Knowing the form and stages of this “cold and heat,” having passed instantaneously through periods of cold and heat and having utilized cold and heat, we should praise over again, with eulogies of the ancients and discussions of the ancients, the truth that the founding ancestor taught. Until we are at that level, the best thing for us is to know our own faults. ... Do not misunderstand that cold and heat in the Buddha’s truth are the same as the cold and heat of stupid fellows. Just be diligent in practice at once.

Preached to the assembly ... 1244 ... ““Though there are many horns in the herd, one kirin is enough.” [The quotation means “To have just one outstanding student is enough.”]

JUNDO NOTE on DONGSHAN'S "FIVE RANKS" or "FIVE POSITIONS"

Although sometimes layered with all manner of esoteric symbolism and strange interpretations, the "FIVE RANKS" of Ancestor Dongshan is basically a formulaic interpretation of the relationship and inter-identity of the world of "Relative" things and events, and the "Absolute" in which all separation is swept away. Zen folks have been debating, and finding different meanings in the "5 Ranks" or "5 Positions" for centuries and centuries.

I am rather a simpleton on the "5 positions," which I believe just try to convey a bit of the dance of the "relative" world of this and that, me and you, and the "absolute" beyond all categories and divisions, whereby the relative is the relative, the relative is absolute, the absolute is the relative and the absolute is the absolute, all seen and experienced to various depths (sometimes both with a prevalence of absolute or a prevalence of experience of the relative, sometimes just relative alone or absolute alone), and yet we leap beyond even those categories too. Dogen very much upheld such a view, as did about all Mahayana Buddhists. Dogen's criticism of the 5 Ranks was probably both because it was being turned too much into a formula, as well as too much of a fetish on to which folks were loading all manner of esoteric interpretations.

If you would like to read a short essay on Dongshan's "Five Positions," Soto Teacher Judith Ragir has this ...

Dongshan’s Five Ranks – White Lotus Judith Ragir

http://www.judithragir.org/2012/06/dongshans-five-ranks/

Wiki Roshi is also not too bad in describing some of the varied interpretations and symbolism that was later added on ...

Five Ranks - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Ranks

**Jundo** · 04-30-2020, 08:25 AM

And our "Hokey Pokey" this time just had to be ...

https://youtu.be/-L9jBi7sGsc

Gassho, J

STLah

**Kyonin** · 04-30-2020, 05:36 PM

Thank you Jundo!

I'll be there live!

Gassho,

Kyonin
Sat/LAH

**Jakuden** · 05-01-2020, 02:00 AM

w00t!

Will be there with bells to kick off our Zazenathon.

Gassho
Jakuden
SatToday/LAH

**Sekishi** · 05-01-2020, 10:22 PM

Hi everyone,

I'll be there, but am running around doing last minute prep for the retreat so I didn't get a chance to do my usual monthly Zazenkai clean up -- the beard will be longer than is strictly allowed under the Vinaya.

Gassho,
Sekishi
#sat #fuzzy

**Shokai** · 05-02-2020, 01:59 AM

Thank you Jundo, Jakuden and all. I saw the heat and the cold. Have to leave to help with a bath and bedtime. Catch up with you on the week end.

gassho, Shokai
stlah

**Tai Do** · 05-02-2020, 03:01 AM

Thank you Jundo, Sekishi, Jakuden and all priests and fellow sangha members for today's zazenkai and this weekend's retreat.
I will now have to sleep (midnight here in Brazil). Tomorrow morning I will join you all for the rest of the retreat.
Gassho,
Mateus
Sat/LAH

**Nanrin** · 05-02-2020, 03:07 AM

Glad to join you all. I left during the sitting after the dance due to a growing headache, upset stomach, and general tiredness. After a bite to eat and a 20 minute nap I feel better. Wasn'tsure about the timing of kinhin and I didn't want to reenter during zazen, so I sat outside of the room. After a few errands and a proper meal, I will be back on zoom as a part of retreat.

This months talk was particularly helpful to me, thank you for that Jundo.

Gassho,

Nanrin

Sat today

Picture of one of the sentient beings that joined in zazenkai, not sure if he was visible on camera or not.

**Doshin** · 05-02-2020, 03:43 AM

Thanks all for your practice.

I was outside for awhile sitting Zazen and heard birds in Japan and birds in New Mexico at the same time. Don’t get much better than that.

Doshin
St

**Sekishi** · 05-02-2020, 04:36 AM

Hi all,

Thank you for practicing together. How lucky we are to have each other, globe spanning communications, and the Buddhadharma!

Quick bit of background for the digital Kannon that was on screen sometimes (the Buddha-Tron-1000 as Jundo called it): that is my son's contribution to the Nehan-E ceremony tomorrow. He was soldering the last bits and debugging code up into the first Zazen tonight, and then sat the rest of the Zazenkai with us. In early April we lost a great mathematician named John Conway to COVID-19. Owen (my son) and I are both huge fans of his, and one of his inventions / discovery - a simple cellular automata called "Game of Life" (or sometimes "Conway's Game of Life" -- not that John ever called it that). I'll post more about the Game of Life rules sometime (it has ramifications in mathematics, computer science, emergence, and even the Dharma).

Anyhow, long story short, Owen built this little tiny computer that can display an 8x8 "Game of Life" pattern (and the number of "generations" it has been running) as a memorial to John Conway so we could have it on the alter for the Nehan-E ceremony. I'm leaving it there until the end of the retreat (sort of like Jundo's candle).

So thats the story.

John Conway:

John Horton Conway - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Horton_Conway

Conway's Game of Life:

Conway's Game of Life - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conway%27s_Game_of_Life

Gassho,
Sekishi
#sat

**Jundo** · 05-02-2020, 05:06 AM

"there are more possible moves playing Go (chess too) than there are atoms in the universe"

To anyone who has ever complained that a game of chess is boring, we can at least guarantee you this: Every game you play will be different. How do we know? Well, it's estimated that there are more possible iterations of a game of chess than there are atoms in the known universe. In fact, the number of possible moves is so vast that no one has ever been able to calculate it exactly.

In the 1950s, mathematician Claude Shannon wrote a paper about how one could program a computer to play chess. In it, he made a quick calculation to determine how many different games of chess were possible, and came up with the number 10^120. This is a very, very large number — the number of atoms in the observable universe, by comparison, is only estimated to be around 10^80.

https://curiosity.com/topics/there-are-more-games-of-chess-possible-than-atoms-in-the-universe-curiosity/

[In Go] Since each location on the board can be either empty, black, or white, there are a total of 3n2 possible board positions on a square board with length n; however only part of them are legal. Tromp and Farnebäck derived a recursive formula for legal positions {\displaystyle L(m,n)}{\displaystyle L(m,n)} of a rectangle board with length m and n.[9] The exact number of {\displaystyle L(19,19)}{\displaystyle L(19,19)} is obtained in 2016[10]. They also find an asymptotic formula {\displaystyle L\approx AB^{m+n}C^{mn}}{\displaystyle L\approx AB^{m+n}C^{mn}}, where {\displaystyle A\approx 0.8506399258457145}{\displaystyle A\approx 0.8506399258457145}, {\displaystyle B\approx 0.96553505933837387}{\displaystyle B\approx 0.96553505933837387} and {\displaystyle C\approx 2.975734192043357249381}{\displaystyle C\approx 2.975734192043357249381}. It has been estimated that the observable universe contains around 1080 atoms, far fewer than the number of possible legal positions of regular board size (m=n=19).

https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007%2F978-3-540-75538-8_8

Counting Legal Positions in Go

https://tromp.github.io/go/legal.html

Go and mathematics - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_and_mathematics#Legal_positions

This computer program can beat humans at Go—with no human instruction

The artificial intelligence (AI) program that last year smacked down the best human player in the ancient board game Go has gotten even better. AlphaGo bested South Korean Go master Lee Sedol in part by learning from a vast catalog of example moves by humans. Now, the latest version of the program, AlphaGo Zero, has mastered the game entirely on its own, researchers at DeepMind, the company that developed the program, announced in a press briefing Monday in London. The novel self-teaching techniques used by the new program might also find uses in other domains, such as traffic planning or drug discovery.
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017...an-instruction

Gassho, J

stlah

A Go (or Igo) match in Japan, in with English subs ... and it is still all beyond me ...

https://youtu.be/-WwUiq9uoFc

**Bokucho** · 05-02-2020, 01:23 PM

Thank you everyone, that was great, and my very first monthly Zazenkai to sit! About the halfway mark I wasn't sure I was going to make it, but then I realized that the time would take care of itself, and then I was free to sit and it was absolutely gorgeous. Thank you all for your practice.

Gassho,

Joshua
SatToday

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

**Meian** · 05-02-2020, 01:26 PM

This Igo match has me completely fascinated.

I never understood chess, but I was good at regular checkers, and I was also good at "Chinese checkers" (what's the real name?), which I liked better but no one ever wanted to play that game. Wonder if i still have it? [emoji848]

I saved this video, I find it highly entertaining and informative.

Gassho, meian, st

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

**Jundo** · 05-02-2020, 01:40 PM

Originally posted by Meian

I saved this video, I find it highly entertaining and informative.

It is an amazing video to watch. It says a lot about Japanese strategic thinking.

Gassho, J

STLah

May 1st-2nd, 2020 - OUR MONTHLY 4-hour Treeleaf ZAZENKAI - Commencing Spring Retreat!

May 1st-2nd, 2020 - OUR MONTHLY 4-hour Treeleaf ZAZENKAI - Commencing Spring Retreat!

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