Buddhist education?

[lindseytim]

As a layman Soto Zen Buddhist, and having practiced on and off for several years, (Most definately on from now on), I have a tremendous appetite to learn more. Yes, I've read books, watched videos, etc. I'm very intetested in more formal types of education out there. I'm not particularly interested in enrolling in college classes but can't help thinking there must be some formal training, or educational opportunities out there. Anyone?

Tim

Gassho

Sat today

[Mp]

Hello Tim,

Thank you for your inquiry ... may I ask one question. How much do you sit?

In our tradition there are things we can study, practices we can practice, but what we learn from justing sitting is so very valuable and the foundation of our practice.

Thoughts?

Gassho
Shingen

s@today in its complete wholeness

Sent from my LG-H812 using Tapatalk

[lindseytim]

I sit daily. Minimum of 20 minutes twice daily. Have for a very long time. You're right that a lot is learned by just sitting, but i was inquiring about formal Buddhist education, not just wisdom and knowledge gained in zazen.

[Mp]

I sit daily. Minimum of 20 minutes twice daily. Have for a very long time. You're right that a lot is learned by just sitting, but i was inquiring about formal Buddhist education, not just wisdom and knowledge gained in zazen.

Very good, sounds like you have a solid sitting practice.

Is there something specific that you are looking for? You have already said that you are/have read books and learned from other materials, but not looking for formal academic training. There are different flavours within Buddhism itself ... is it history? Rituals? Different schools of Buddhism?

Gassho
Shingen

s@today

[lindseytim]

Well, i really can't pin it down. Just lately have a desire for "more" . Sure, i can read more, study more. Watch more. Sit more. But lately it feels like its not enough to satisfy me. I feel like a piece is missing. Like i'm missing something. Odd way to put it but i dont know how else to word it. I've come very far, and want to go farther. (While not desiring it at the same time, because thats counterproductive on the path) 😄

[Jundo]

As a layman Soto Zen Buddhist, and having practiced on and off for several years, (Most definately on from now on), I have a tremendous appetite to learn more. Yes, I've read books, watched videos, etc. I'm very intetested in more formal types of education out there. I'm not particularly interested in enrolling in college classes but can't help thinking there must be some formal training, or educational opportunities out there. Anyone?

Tim

Gassho

Sat today

Hi Tim,

Well, as Shingen describes, Zen is primarily sitting Zazen, studying Teachings and practicing with a teacher and Community, sitting more, putting all into actual practice in daily life, repeat repeat ...

Traditionally, the way to do so was perhaps to become a monk in a monastery (although, as I have written in the past, I believe that modern lay folks have a better opportunity and environment for Zen Practice these days in many many ways then even monks of the past. But that is another topic). There are still opportunities for residential practice in the Americas and Europe for long or shorter periods of times, and that is one way to go.

Apart from that, there are college courses in Buddhist history and such, but that is not Practice. Only Practice is Practice.

If I may, I might actually say that this Treeleaf place is as close as one will get to a "course" on Soto Zen Buddhist Practice. Sure, it can look a little unstructured in its structure, covering many aspects of Zen teachings and the kitchen sink, but that is because all of life is rather unstructured and we put our "practice into practice" in all of life. Oh, sure, there is no "diploma" at the end, and no credits ... but you do earn endless merit and Total Complete Enlightenment as one with the Cosmos. So, not a complete a waste of time!

Gassho, Jundo

SatToday

PS - A bit off topic, but the following thread has a whole series of essays I wrote a few years ago to bring folks "down from the clouds" on idealized visions of enlightened Buddhist monks living in Shangi-la, and to helps folks realize just how good they have it right where they sit.

In some important ways, sincere lay practitioners today may enjoy better surrounding circumstances for practice than did the average monk in, for example, Dogen's day. Things in the "Golden Age" were not so golden as we too easily romanticize. Most monks back then were half-educated (even in Buddhism), semi-literate (or what passed for literacy in those times), superstition driven, narrow folks who may have understood less about the traditions and teachings they were following ... their history and meaning and depth ... than we now know. The conditions for practice within old temples and monasteries might have been less than ideal, many teachers less than ideal, despite our idealization of the old timers. Studying Sutras by smoky oil lamp, living one's days out in Japan or Tibet while having no real information grasp on China and India and the customs of prior centuries, living in a world of rumor and magic and misunderstanding (in which all kinds of myths and stories and superstitions were taken as explanations for how the world works), unable to access a modern Buddhist library, or to "Google" a reliable source (emphasis on making sure it is reliable however!) to check some point, or to ask a real expert outside one's limited circle, being beholden to only one teacher at a time (no matter how poor a teacher), with no knowledge of the human brain and some very important discoveries of science ... and after all that effort ... getting sick and dying at the age of 40 from some ordinary fever. (Can you even imagine trying to listen to Dogen Zenji recite "live" a Shobogenzo teaching from way across the room ... without a modern microphone and PA system and "Youtube" to let one replay it all? I suppose many never heard a word!)

The "Good Old Days" were not necessarily the "Good Old Days".

In contrast, in many ways, the average lay person practicing today has very many better circumstances for practice than those monks in 13th century Eihei-ji. For that reason, it is time to re-evaluate the place and power of lay practice. What was true in the cultures and times of ages past need not be true today!
http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showt...onastery-Walls

[Jundo]

Oh, and let me point you to this Talk on "What's Next?". We westerners especially always seem to need the next step, the next stage, the next lesson, the next book, the next guru, the next pair of shoes, the next shiny tower on the hill ...

Our Practice is weird-wise medicine for this "What's Next" as we go ever more deeply into this and this and this ...

Almost each week someone asks me, "What comes next in my practice? How do I deepen it? What should I do now? What book should I read with all the secrets? I feel like something is still missing and that I must do more."

But how can I respond to such a question when the very heart of this Path is learning to live and be this life radically FREE OF THE NEED FOR 'WHAT'S NEXT', LIBERATED OF 'SOMETHING MORE THAT NEED BE DONE', FULFILLED OF 'ANYTHING MISSING'!

Oh, don't misunderstand. I typically respond that, together with daily sitting, there are some 'this and thats' that we can do to deepen our practice ... such as another 'Zen Book' to read or 'Zen Talk' to hear, studying a bit more of Buddhist and Zen teachings, attending more retreats, adding more practices such as Samu, Bowing, Chanting, Sewing, studying the Precepts or undertaking a Jukai, learning to bring 'Zazen' off the Zafu and to all aspects of life ... ALL ENRICHING WAYS TO DEEPEN THIS PRACTICE!

... However, the fundamental Heart of this Path must remain learning to be so intimately At Home, At One with life ... that there is no need for "what's next" ... no hole to fill as "something missing". Our way to do so is simply to sit Shikantaza, dropping all thought and desire for "what's next" ... all while welcoming and embracing whatever comes next.

SIT-A-LONG with Jundo: WHAT's NEXT!?!

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?9471-SIT-A-LONG-with-Jundo-WHAT-s-NEXT%21-%21

Gassho, J

SatToday

[Mp]

Traditionally, the way to do so was perhaps to become a monk in a monastery (although, as I have written in the past, I believe that modern lay folks have a better opportunity and environment for Zen Practice these days in many many ways then even monks of the past. But that is another topic). There are still opportunities for residential practice in the Americas and Europe for long or shorter periods of times, and that is one way to go.

Hey Tim,

Well, Jundo just pulled the words out of my mouth for your last post. =) Being a lay practitioner I feel can give you the best opportunity to find that "lacking" or "wanting more". When you get up off the cushion and have put the book down, go out in the world and practice what you have learned. Share your experience with the people who are needing help. Our practice is not only for ourselves, but for the benefit of ALL sentient beings. Maybe you already have enough of the intellectual/academic understanding, now maybe it is more about applying what you already know - seeing the fruits of your efforts if you will.

There is something in that "ah-ha", I get it moment! But there is even more of a jewel when you share that "ah-ha", I get it moment and they get it too. =)

Gassho
Shingen

s@today

[lindseytim]

I thank you both for your replies. I have learned much from Treeleaf and the Atlanta Soto Zen Center when i can sit there. And, i whole heartedly agree that the world is my temple and a lay person experiencing real life has more opportunity to practice and be of more service. Perhaps i just need to leave the raft i no longer need to carry and find more ways to "engage" my Buddhism.

Thank you for your wise input.

[Mp]

I thank you both for your replies. I have learned much from Treeleaf and the Atlanta Soto Zen Center when i can sit there. And, i whole heartedly agree that the world is my temple and a lay person experiencing real life has more opportunity to practice and be of more service. Perhaps i just need to leave the raft i no longer need to carry and find more ways to "engage" my Buddhism.

Thank you for your wise input.

Wise words Tim ... sometimes our view in other aspects of our life can creep over to our practice and thus have us wanting more, having us believe there is something lacking, or something other then what is already here. Engaged Buddhism is a beautiful and fulfilling practice, again not only for the people on the receiving end, but also for ourselves. There are many paths up the mountain, so to the many rivers to the ocean. Taking a ride on a new raft just might be the answer you are looking for. =)

Gassho
Shingen

s@today

[Geika]

For years after beginning practice, I often sat with this feeling that there was some kind of riddle in zen that I needed to figure out. I would read a lot and ponder my educational options. After a while, I'm not sure when, this feeling dropped away and I realized I just needed to participate with the sangha and sit more. Basically, what everyone else said.

Gassho, sat today

[Hoko]

Well, i really can't pin it down. Just lately have a desire for "more" . Sure, i can read more, study more. Watch more. Sit more. But lately it feels like its not enough to satisfy me. I feel like a piece is missing. Like i'm missing something. Odd way to put it but i dont know how else to word it. I've come very far, and want to go farther. (While not desiring it at the same time, because thats counterproductive on the path) ��

Hey I know that feeling! It's been around for a long, long time. Sometimes it goes away but it always comes back.
We're old friends now, that feeling and I. We're so close we don't even have to talk anymore; we know just what the other is thinking!
In fact, we often sit and stare at each other for long stretches of time, just enjoying each other's company.
The more I get comfortable with that feeling without poking at it the happier I seem to be.

Funny thing, being a human being; we set arbitrary goals and go after them.
If we succeed, we just pick another target. If we fail, we lament our "loss" conveniently forgetting who set the bar in the first place!

Some excellent advice from our hosts Jundo & Shingen as usual.

Gassho,
Hoko
#SatToday

[lindseytim]

Thank you Geika and Hoko for your replies. Deep bows for your words and guidance.

Gassho
Tim

Sat today

[Jundo]

Remember that Dogen not only said that, in Practice, there is "no place to go and nothing to attain."

He also said "Practice never ends" and is in each moment, of endless depths. A Koan.

Gassho, J

SatToday

[lindseytim]

A wise fellow, that Dogen was.

Thank you Jundo.

Gassho
Tim

Sat today