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  • Jyukatsu
    Member
    • Nov 2015
    • 283

    #31
    Hi Tony,

    I do recognize your frustration, it comes up for me from time to time : i could be practicing pranayama, yoga, qigong etc.....doing something instead of just being; BUT that is the beauty of Shikantaza : just sit, with a deep trust, and simply be in the moment as it presents itself.

    Such a relief

    Gassho,

    Jyūkatsu,
    sat today
    柔 Jyū flexible
    活 Katsu energetic

    Comment

    • Jundo
      Treeleaf Founder and Priest
      • Apr 2006
      • 40719

      #32
      I want to drop in one more fact about Shikantaza that sometimes escapes folks.

      As I see it, through the Buddha's Wisdom, we live being content even with the fact that we are not always content with things. We live at peace with the fact that sometimes we don't feel peaceful. We sit knowing that there is "no waste of time" even about the time we spend feeling that maybe "we are wasting time."

      In other words, Zazen is not about learning to always feel content, peaceful and fulfilled. It is about learning to be somehow content, peaceful and fulfilled even with times in life anything but "content, peaceful and fulfilled". Maybe I might call it a subtle, profound, underlying and all encompassing "Content Peaceful Fulfilled" that holds everything, including not feeling always very "content peaceful fulfilled".

      Let me give you an example from today: I was late for an appointment, stupid thing, feeling edgy a little, complainy, annoyed at traffic, not wanting to go, a bit unhappy. This is just to be human. No problem. But the difference is that in the past, without this Practice, I might just have felt edgy, complainy, not satisfied, annoyed, rather unhappy and miserable. However, now I felt mysteriously content, accepting, at home, totally satisfied and fulfilled even with the experience of being humanly a little edgy, complainy, a tad annoyed, not satisfied and a bit unhappy in that moment.

      Understand?

      This Practice, I believe, does not make us robots with the "happy" switch always on. Rather, it makes us happy to be human, with all the bumps that sometimes entails (even stuff like jealousy, anger and depression that we cannot control, although we do try to avoid those as much as we can).

      It is hard to explain but, as I was driving today a bit unhappy and annoyed ... I was simultaneously also in heaven! Yippee!

      So, please sit sometimes feeling many days "a big waste of time" and unfilled in your Zazen ... and learn to be fulfilled and at peace in the very fact of humanly feeling unfufilled and upset sometimes.

      Such a Zenny way to see things may sound a little crazy ... but I believe it is a very Wise crazy.

      Gassho, J

      SatToday
      Last edited by Jundo; 04-05-2017, 04:38 PM.
      ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

      Comment

      • Jakuden
        Member
        • Jun 2015
        • 6141

        #33
        Originally posted by Jundo
        I want to drop in one more fact about Shikantaza that sometimes escapes folks.

        As I see it, through the Buddha's Wisdom, we live being content even with the fact that we are not always content with things. We live at peace with the fact that sometimes we don't feel peaceful. We sit knowing that there is "no waste of time" even about the time we spend feeling that maybe "we are wasting time."

        In other words, Zazen is not about learning to always feel content, peaceful and fulfilled. It is about learning to be somehow content, peaceful and fulfilled even with times in life anything but "content, peaceful and fulfilled". Maybe I might call it a subtle, profound, underlying and all encompassing "Content Peaceful Fulfilled" that holds everything, including not feeling always very "content peaceful fulfilled".

        Let me give you an example from today: I was late for an appointment, stupid thing, feeling edgy a little, complainy, annoyed at traffic, not wanting to go, a bit unhappy. This is just to be human. No problem. But the difference is that in the past, without this Practice, I might just have felt edgy, complainy, not satisfied, annoyed, rather unhappy and miserable. However, now I felt mysteriously content, accepting, at home, totally satisfied and fulfilled even with the experience of being humanly a little edgy, complainy, a tad annoyed, not satisfied and a bit unhappy in that moment.

        Understand?

        This Practice, I believe, does not make us robots with the "happy" switch always on. Rather, it makes us happy to be human, with all the bumps that sometimes entails (even stuff like jealousy, anger and depression that we cannot control, although we do try to avoid those as much as we can).

        It is hard to explain but, as I was driving today a bit unhappy and annoyed ... I was simultaneously also in heaven! Yippee!

        So, please sit sometimes feeling many days "a big waste of time" and unfilled in your Zazen ... and learn to be fulfilled and at peace in the very fact of humanly feeling unfufilled and upset sometimes.

        Such a Zenny way to see things may sound a little crazy ... but I believe it is a very Wise crazy.

        Gassho, J

        SatToday
        [emoji120][emoji120][emoji120]Thank you Jundo!

        Gassho
        Jakuden
        SatToday


        Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
        Last edited by Jundo; 04-05-2017, 04:38 PM.

        Comment

        • Taiyo
          Member
          • Jul 2016
          • 431

          #34
          Originally posted by Jundo
          I want to drop in one more fact about Shikantaza that sometimes escapes folks.

          As I see it, through the Buddha's Wisdom, we live being content even with the fact that we are not always content with things. We live at peace with the fact that sometimes we don't feel peaceful. We sit knowing that there is "no waste of time" even about the time we spend feeling that maybe "we are wasting time."

          In other words, Zazen is not about learning to always feel content, peaceful and fulfilled. It is about learning to be somehow content, peaceful and fulfilled even with times in life anything but "content, peaceful and fulfilled". Maybe I might call it a subtle, profound, underlying and all encompassing "Content Peaceful Fulfilled" that holds everything, including not feeling always very "content peaceful fulfilled".

          Let me give you an example from today: I was late for an appointment, stupid thing, feeling edgy a little, complainy, annoyed at traffic, not wanting to go, a bit unhappy. This is just to be human. No problem. But the difference is that in the past, without this Practice, I might just have felt edgy, complainy, not satisfied, annoyed, rather unhappy and miserable. However, now I felt mysteriously content, accepting, at home, totally satisfied and fulfilled even with the experience of being humanly a little edgy, complainy, a tad annoyed, not satisfied and a bit unhappy in that moment.

          Understand?

          This Practice, I believe, does not make us robots with the "happy" switch always on. Rather, it makes us happy to be human, with all the bumps that sometimes entails (even stuff like jealousy, anger and depression that we cannot control, although we do try to avoid those as much as we can).

          It is hard to explain but, as I was driving today a bit unhappy and annoyed ... I was simultaneously also in heaven! Yippee!

          So, please sit sometimes feeling many days "a big waste of time" and unfilled in your Zazen ... and learn to be fulfilled and at peace in the very fact of humanly feeling unfufilled and upset sometimes.

          Such a Zenny way to see things may sound a little crazy ... but I believe it is a very Wise crazy.

          Gassho, J

          SatToday
          Lovely!! Thank you, Jundo

          Gassho,
          Taiyo

          SatToday
          太 Tai (Great)
          陽 Yō (Sun)

          Comment

          • Entai
            Member
            • Jan 2013
            • 451

            #35
            Originally posted by dharmasponge

            It feels lazy and counter productive. It feels like I am quite literally just sitting there, on my arse, staring at the floor. Nothing virtuous, nothing of any benefit or consequence.
            I wonder if this is what Superman thinks when he's sitting around doing Clark Kent stuff. Tony, I have no clue if zazen is of any benefit or not. I do know that it can be boring and sometimes painful. And yes, it can seem to be pointless. But even Superman doesn't go around saving the planet in every waking moment (pun intended).

            My best to you.
            Gassho, Entai
            #SatToday

            泰 Entai (Bill)
            "this is not a dress rehearsal"

            Comment

            • Jakuden
              Member
              • Jun 2015
              • 6141

              #36
              I think one of my first posts in this forum was similar to this one, I have always been plagued by "should be doings." Part of me always will scold if I am not multitasking, busy with things I "should be doing," but at least I talk back and tell the scolding voice to cool its jets for awhile now. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't.
              Gassho
              Jakuden
              SatToday


              Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

              Comment

              • Jundo
                Treeleaf Founder and Priest
                • Apr 2006
                • 40719

                #37
                Rewrite to simplify ... (I am dissatisfied with my first attempt )

                ---

                Here is another fun fact:

                Allowing oneself to be "content, peaceful and fulfilled" even with one's feeling bothered, bored, time wasting, sad, angry, nervous, not content nor peaceful etc, is --- not --- mere complacency and indulgence in the negative emotions.

                Why?

                Letting the feeling be, without resistance ... in peace with not always feeling peaceful ... can actually lighten the negative feeling and free it of its strangle hold on us.

                By being willing "not to change a thing" about the moment, the whole thing somehow changes.

                Oh, not always (seems like, unfortunately, some storms keep storming some days) ... but so very very much.

                So, for example, by not being self-loathing and angry about the fact of being angry ... we thus somehow get less angry with life and the whole darn thing. The anger mysteriously lightens.

                By not being afraid and self-critical about being afraid ... by just allowing the situation, including the fact that the situation includes our fear ... we thus somehow get less afraid. Is is as if being at peace with being afraid and free of self-reproach for being so rings right thought the fear (still scared perhaps, but it's all somehow okay).

                By allowing and being at home even with a feeling of disappointment and waste of time ... we thus somehow become less disappointed and judgmental of the disappointing moment.

                So, for example, I described how yesterday I was feeling grumpy and complainy about being late and road conditions. I could have berated myself. I could have even let anger take me prisoner to the point of road rage! But by just allowing myself to witness and to forgive myself for my feeling of anger, suddenly I was just less angry and far from rage. Actually, I was at peace with the whole disaster, including my feelings.

                Recently, I got very disappointment at something in life that did not turn out, and someone who broke a promise. By allow that feeling, including my disappointment, it was all okay including the feeling of disappointment.

                I sometimes tell the story about how my daughter was once near death in the hospital, and I was filled with fear and worst case thoughts for the future. Terrible night. I just allowed myself to feel fear, allowed the whole horror to unfold. Suddenly, just by my doing so, I also felt a certain peace so peaceful, even something beyond life and death. I can only describe how I felt terrible fear AND total abiding peace and "it's ok" at once. It just was what it was, including that in that moment I was scared out of my mind.

                All that positive change happens merely by being willing to let be, not resist, not change a thing.

                Remember this central image of our Practice: The sun of enlightenment shines in clear, open cloudless skies. But it also shines even on the darkest, cloudiest stormy days though hidden from the eye (clouds representing all our thoughts and emotions that can cause us to lose clarity). An aspect of our practice is to realize this truth. As well, by just letting clouds be clouds sometimes and allowing our own weak humanity, we can experience the sun actually shining through and bringing contour to the clouds, making them translucent ... the clouds of thought and good or bad emotions and the sun all one.

                And then it's like, "I an totally miserable and yuck ... AND IT'S OKAY!"

                A little counter-intuitive, and more "Wise-Crazy", but it works.

                Gassho, J

                SatToday
                Last edited by Jundo; 04-06-2017, 06:31 AM.
                ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

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                • Jundo
                  Treeleaf Founder and Priest
                  • Apr 2006
                  • 40719

                  #38
                  PS -

                  Originally posted by Jundo

                  Allowing oneself to be "content, peaceful and fulfilled" even with one's feeling bothered, bored, time wasting, sad, angry, nervous, not content nor peaceful etc, is --- not --- mere complacency and indulgence in the negative emotions.
                  I came across something which connects to this in a essay by Soto Zen Teacher Issho Fujita dedicated to Buddha's Birthday (this April 8th, by the way) ... My boldface ...

                  ---------------

                  Zen master Daichi (1289-1366) wrote a verse entitled "Buddha's Birth."
                  This was possibly composed as "Kogo", or Incense Phrases for Buddha's
                  Birthday Assembly, what we call "Butsu Gotan-e".

                  "In Jambudvipa, there are eighty-four thousand castles.
                  Without using any weapons such as swords and shields,
                  great peace is created.
                  We capture Gautama, a daylight thief, alive.
                  So we do not bother to give him a blow with a stick, as
                  Unmon once said."


                  In Indian cosmology, Jambudvipa is considered a human world.
                  It is said to be filled with 84,000 earthly desires which cause us to suffer.
                  These earthly desires are likened to "castles" in this verse. We tend to
                  think that our practice is to attack and destroy those castles, believing that
                  we can never attain awakening unless we extinguish all earthly desires.
                  The Buddha was born into Jambudvipa in order to teach us that that is not
                  the case. He showed us the way to live in peace without resorting to battle
                  against the castles of earthly desires. He never taught how to invent and
                  use weapons to destroy them. True peace is not possible so long as we
                  rely on weapons.

                  Chinese Zen master Unmon once blamed the Buddha for tricking us like
                  a wily thief by talking about delusion and enlightenment as if they exist
                  separately. So we started a kind of spiritual war against delusion for the
                  sake of enlightenment. According to Unmon, Gautama made uncalled-for
                  statements only to misguide us to practice as though we were at war. He
                  said, "If I had been there when Gautama was born, I would have given
                  him one fatal blow so as to bring peace back to the people's mind". (Of
                  course he is actually praising the Buddha through an expression of
                  reproach). Zen master Daichi says that if only we can capture the Buddha
                  alive, we need not perform "Unmon's one blow" to the Buddha to correct
                  his error.

                  How is it possible to create great peace without using weapons? How can
                  we capture the Buddha alive?

                  The answer is to sit zazen of shikantaza. In zazen we do not fight against
                  whatever happens to us. We do not apply any method or technique as a
                  weapon to win the fight. Instead we simply accept it and naturally let go.
                  Zazen is to "cease fire" and to create a profound peace within oneself and
                  the world.


                  (From Issho Fujita, Polishing A Tile)
                  Last edited by Jundo; 04-07-2017, 02:08 AM.
                  ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

                  Comment

                  • Jundo
                    Treeleaf Founder and Priest
                    • Apr 2006
                    • 40719

                    #39
                    PPS - Also this from Bankei Yōtaku, the great 17th Century Master who, although of the Rinzai school, seems to have advocated a way much as Shikantaza ...

                    ------------

                    [Y]ou people try to stop your thoughts of anger and
                    rage, clinging and craving from arising, then by stopping
                    them you divide one mind into two. It's as if you were
                    pursuing something that's running away. As long as you
                    deliberately try to stop your rising thoughts, the thought of
                    trying to stop them wars against the continually arising
                    thoughts themselves, and there's never an end to it. ...
                    " 'Well,' you may wonder, 'then what can I do to stop
                    them?' Even if suddenly, despite yourself and wholly unawares,
                    rage or anger should appear, or thoughts of clinging
                    and craving arise, just let them come—don't develop them
                    any further, don't attach to them. Without concerning
                    yourself about whether to stop your rising thoughts or not
                    to stop them, just don't bother with them, and then there's
                    nothing else they can do but stop. You can't have an argument
                    with the fence if you're standing there all alone!
                    When there's no one there to fight with, things can't help
                    but simply come to an end of themselves.
                    "Even when all sorts of thoughts do crop up, it's only
                    for the time being while they arise. So, just like little
                    children of three or four who are busy at play, when you
                    don't continue holding onto those thoughts and don't cling
                    to any [particular] thoughts, whether they're happy or sad,
                    not thinking about whether to stop or not to stop them—
                    why, that's nothing else but abiding in the Unborn Buddha
                    Mind. So keep the one mind as one mind. If you always
                    have your mind like this, then, whether it's good things or
                    bad, even though you're neither trying not to think them
                    nor to stop them, they can't help but just stop of them-
                    selves.

                    ...

                    What's more, to try to stop your
                    rising thoughts, holding them back and suppressing them,
                    is a bad idea. The original, innate Buddha Mind is one
                    alone—it's never two. But when you try to stop your rising
                    anger, [your mind] is split between your angry thoughts
                    and your thoughts of stopping them. It's as if you're chasing
                    after someone who is running away, except that you're
                    both the runner and the one pursuing him as well! Let me
                    give you an example of what I mean: You can busy yourself
                    sweeping under a tree with thick [autumn] foliage; but
                    since the tree's leaves will keep scattering down from above,
                    even if, for the moment, you manage to get things neatly
                    swept away, more leaves will only come falling later on,
                    won't they? In the same way, even if you stop your original
                    thoughts of anger, the subsequent thoughts involved with
                    the stopping of them will never come to an end. So the
                    idea of trying to stop [your thoughts] is wrong. Since that's
                    how it is, when you no longer bother about those rising
                    thoughts, not trying either to stop them or not to stop
                    them, why, that's the Unborn Buddha Mind. That's what
                    I've been telling about just now in such detail. Weren't
                    you listening? [If you weren't,] it's a shame!"

                    (Haskel p 50-53)
                    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

                    Comment

                    • Jundo
                      Treeleaf Founder and Priest
                      • Apr 2006
                      • 40719

                      #40
                      And PPPS (I believe that this is the last one for the night) ...

                      "Letting things be" does not mean that we truly accept our harmful and excess behavior. If one really has rage and violence issues, drug and alcohol addictions, excess emotions of all kinds to the point of real injury to self and others ...

                      ... they need to be dealt with. Professionally (professional care and Zazen are rarely in conflict).

                      We totally "accept them and all things as they are," yet we get help (Yes, one can do both at once, and in fact, the "acceptance of things" might actually help on getting past the anger and addiction and the road to recovery).

                      So, again, don't think that the "acceptance and allowing" of which I speak is mere complacency and wallowing in life's serious problems.


                      Okay ... GOOD NIGHT!

                      Gassho, J

                      SatToday
                      Last edited by Jundo; 04-07-2017, 02:11 AM.
                      ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

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                      • Hoko
                        Member
                        • Aug 2009
                        • 458

                        #41
                        Awesome. Deep bows! 🙏🙏🙏

                        Love the Bankei quote as I just finished the book. Especially appreciate the anger discussion as this is an issue I am quite familiar with. Looking at the anger without indulging it is only the first step. Looking at the self loathing for having felt the anger at all is the second step. (not that these are sequential). Acknowledging that it is possible to accept the anger and the self loathing for feeling the anger as all part of the wholeness of what is brings compassion for the (small) self and (at least for me personally) lessens the intensity of the situation allowing it to pass naturally without creating harm for myself or others.

                        As an anecdotal aside I used to keep an app on my phone that would tell me when I last had had an "anger episode". This was something I talked about with Sekishi during the last Ango period. Anyway it worked for a while but I eventually noticed that every time I "lost it" and had to reset the counter I was really down on myself. After I felt that the counter had served its purpose (which was to help me become more aware of my anger) I ultimately dropped it because by "keeping score" I was setting up a duality in which I was doing battle with myself. By dropping the score keeping it felt like I was dropping the "battle against the castles of earthly desires". Just another example of letting go of something in order to gain something. No wisdom and no gain.

                        Gassho,
                        Hōkō
                        #SatToday

                        Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk
                        Last edited by Hoko; 04-07-2017, 01:20 AM.
                        法 Dharma
                        口 Mouth

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                        • Caisson
                          Member
                          • May 2015
                          • 50

                          #42
                          Sitting in boredom reminds me of watching the grass grow. In the moment there is nothing to see. Next week I have to cut the grass again!

                          All in it's sitting without seeing anything at all. So sit and see.

                          Trust me when I say I haven't a clue. I will go sit with that.

                          Gassho and many thanks for all the great posts here

                          Caisson

                          satoday

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