Any Advice for Sitting 4-Hr. Zazenkai?

[M.C. Easton]

Hi all,
I'm still fairly new to the forums around here (joined in November), so if I've posted this thread in the wrong place, please let me know!

So, a question for you all: I'm very excited to sit my first 4-hour zazenkai this coming weekend. But I'm nervous, too. I'm looking for any advice from fellow Treeleafers about how folks handle a long zazenkai with any health restrictions.

Mine specifically are that I'll have to eat a little something during zazenkai. Also, neck and shoulder muscles tense during long sits. I have to stretch often to prevent a migraine. So what do those with limitations do--or have heard of others doing?

Do you watch the on-demand version and hit "pause" to take that necessary food/stretching/meds break and simply come back to it when ready?

Do you do less kinhin, using those times instead for breaks? (Yet I don't want to miss kinhin.)

I also plan to attend the 2-day retreat with everyone in December, so I look forward to using your tips and tricks then, too!

Please let me know how one might sit a long zazen healthfully. Thank you for any insights or tips you might have!

Gassho,
M.C.
SatToday

[Shugen]

Hello M.C.,

I would say, listen to your body - if you need to stop and stretch, stop and stretch, if you need to eat, eat. You should push your comfort zone a little but do not over do it! One of the nice things about the online Zazenkai is that your movements etc. will not bother the other attendees. If you can attend "live", I would recommend giving it a try!

Gassho,

Shugen

Sattoday

[Seido]

If you can wait, the Kinhin time period would work well for that. But if you need to stretch during Zazen to avoid a migraine, well I say just go for it. Like Shugen said, pushing it a little is worth the effort, but not at the sacrifice to your health.

Sitting Zazen in August of last year I didn't realize how badly my leg had fallen asleep, and when I went to rise for Kinhin I stepped on my bent foot terribly wrong and suffered a serious sprain, I had to use a cane for a month and it still hurts to this day. Now I sit with legs out until they wake up, I don't care if everyone passes me once or twice during Kinhin before I can stand up.

Good luck this weekend!

Gassho,
Seido
SatToday

[Mp]

Hello MC,

I agree with Shugen ... listen to your body and don't over do it. There sometimes can be some discomfort, that is normal, we just sit and be present with it. However, we don't want to cause ourselves undo pain or suffering. So if you need to move so you don't get a migraine, then gassho, and move to kinhin. If you are ready to come back to sitting, come back, if you need to continue kinhin, continue. If you need to have something to eat due to medical reason, then also do that. Your body is most important, as it is the vehicle in which one practices the Dharma, so take good care of it. Over time your body and muscle memory will adjust ... but again, take it slow as there is no race or time frame. =)

As well, all of this can be done either with the live zazenkai and sitting one way, live sitting two way, or with the recording ... this is up to you.

Gassho
Shingen

s@today

[Enjaku]

This is just my personal experience but I find worrying too much about posture and form can take attention away from the business of just sitting. I would say if you need to stretch or eat, stretch or eat, but don't spend too much time thinking about it or worrying like it's a big deal.

The other thing I've found helpful with sore muscles is focusing on the connection between my thumbs, trying to keep this very gentle. Then I extend that gentleness to my whole body. You could say I become lighter, like a cloud.

Gassho,
Enjaku
Sat

[Jakuden]

You likely won't miss much kinhin if you keep a snack and a drink on a nearby table. However, even during sesshin at a brick-and-mortar monastery, folks dodge off during kinhin for a quick potty break or a drink if necessary and I don't think anyone worries about missing kinhin (except for those folks who sit through it entirely, deep bows to them!)
Gassho,
Jakuden
SatToday

[Joyo]

Hello M.C.,

I would say, listen to your body - if you need to stop and stretch, stop and stretch, if you need to eat, eat. You should push your comfort zone a little but do not over do it! One of the nice things about the online Zazenkai is that your movements etc. will not bother the other attendees. If you can attend "live", I would recommend giving it a try!

Gassho,

Shugen

Sattoday

Very good advice. This is what I have done in the past when sitting for longer time periods. It's the only way I can make it, so better to listen to your body than to try and push yourself and then you may feel frustrated or in so much pain that you will quit altogether.

Gassho,
Joyo
sat today

[Tom]

Iyengar yoga, the style that emphasizes strength and longer holds, is tailor-made for 'conditioning' the creaky old bod for sitting. Plough position, good for neck and shoulders, backbends, many gentle variations if a person isn't used to it. Personally, for me, it really quietens down the squeaks, tweaks and knots. Then you can settle down and enjoy the real pain ;p.

[Seishin]

Finding a full four slot can be difficult so I've tended to sit on demand. I'll do the weekly Zazenkai over two mornings and the monthly one over three or four. This year I've tried to participate weekly and the flexibility of the netcast allows me to do this. I would add on long sits listen to your body both in regards to nutrition and the physical aspects.

[Jishin]

Hi MC,

You only get one spacesuit in this life time. Yours is different than everyone else's. Don't let anyone tell you what proper form is. They don't live in your temple. You do. If it hurts don't do it. Move.

My 2 cents.

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Jundo]

Hi M.C.,

Very good advice from folks above. Listen and know your own body, know your abilities and limits, sit Zazen and mix and match with Kinhin as needed, take breaks, eat something or don't, get up before others or later, do the sitting in bits ... stop if there is need and it comes to feel too much. We "sit" Zazen with and as what is ... and your health condition is "what is."

Also, if there is any doubt on your part at all, get a doctor's okay before participating.

Don't think that Zazenkai is "one size fits all." The universe fits all, with whatever you need to fit your situation.

Gassho, J

SatToday

[M.C. Easton]

Great advice. You're totally right--my body will let me know when and what I need.

As for attending live, I think I will, Shugen! Even if at some point I have to leave and pick back up later with the recording, it is nice knowing it won't be disruptive. I'll keep a close eye on the zazenkai threads Thursday and Friday for the link to the Google Plus.

Thank you for the encouragement, Shugen.
Gassho,
M.C.
SatToday

[M.C. Easton]

Just realized I can't reply to each post! Oops! ;-)

Thank you so very much everyone for your gracious help, support, insights--wow! This is an amazing community.

I will indeed listen to my body, not rush, sit with what is and prevent what doesn't need to be, keep all my needed implements nearby, and just explore what works with this body in this moment of zazenkai. Excellent advice from all.

Deep gassho to you and much gratitude,
M.C.
SatToday

[Jishin]

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Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Ansan]

Hello M.C.

Wonderful advice here & great observations. It took me awhile to realize the truth of "one size does not fit all." Sitting with an aging body is a lot different than the one that used to bend & twist comfortably without the aftermath of sprains & strains. That's no problem though. Burmese works fine for me now with an occasional half lotus. My biggest concern once was that I created my own mental pain because our computer transmission is slow & costly. Now, I try to listen to the Dharma talk then move on to just sitting with my own timer. Before I begin, I have a cup of something

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