Freeze framed zazen

[Koushu]

True it might not make sense, but through biology we have proven that the nervous system sends and receives electrical signal to and from the brain.

Like my Psychology Advisor once taught the only true answer in science is I Don't Know. Nature, our bodies, conceptual mind and our own buddha nature is all a great mystery and that is why we practice, not to understand the mystery or reveal it but rather experience it and merge with even though we are already merged with it.

For perceptions too are illusion, just the experience itself should suffice. But others explanations are entertaining.

Now I will clear my mind, sit and enter silence once more in search of the way without searching.

Gassho
拡手
Koushu

Satoday and will sit again.

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[Jundo]

True it might not make sense, but through biology we have proven that the nervous system sends and receives electrical signal to and from the brain.

Like my Psychology Advisor once taught the only true answer in science is I Don't Know. Nature, our bodies, conceptual mind and our own buddha nature is all a great mystery and that is why we practice, not to understand the mystery or reveal it but rather experience it and merge with even though we are already merged with it.

For perceptions too are illusion, just the experience itself should suffice. But others explanations are entertaining.

Now I will clear my mind, sit and enter silence once more in search of the way without searching.

Gassho
拡手
Koushu

Satoday and will sit again.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

That is all true, but some wild things people claim about the body, healing, energies, mysteries, Chakras and such are just made up nonsense too. It is important to know the difference, and that not every wild thing some dead or living guys claim in eastern religions or medicine are true.

All the faith and old books in the world will not let crystals cure cancer, for example.

Gassho, Jundo

SatToday

[Koushu]

Agreed.

Gassho
拡手
Koushu

Satoday

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[Jundo]

PS - Be cautious regarding Charles Tart, who has also made all manner of wild and unsubstantiated claims regarding out of body experiences and channeling and such. He seems to have done some good early work in altered states of consciousness, then gone a bit off the rails.

http://skepdic.com/tart.html

[Ryumon]

Thank you, Jundo, for your sage comments on accupunture. There is absolutely no evidence that any of that is true, or that the results of acupuncture are anything other than a placebo effect. Unfortunately, in the west, it is seen as something almost magical because it has a long history. Bleeding people has a long history too, and it is useless. And I say this as someone who had believed in such things (accupunture, not bleeding) when I was young and foolish.

Gassho,

Kirk

#sat

[Kyonin]

Hi Koushu,

I can totally relate to those experiences. Sometimes I feel like floating, others I see lights and feel relaxed, others time seems to flow or stop completely. All those experiences are great and are great gifts, but it's very easy to get caught on them and crave for more.

Please remember that they are not the core of our practice. Whenever you get those experiences, feel and enjoy, but go about your business.

And have some chocolate. That's all.

Gassho,

Kyonin
#SatToday

[Koushu]

Thank you Kyonin, the thing is when it happens as I said I feel nothing (in terms of mental emotions) and my mind is completely and utterly still. Like it is a natural force that wells up deep inside from somewhere, I find no attachment to but rather it is like a spring breaking through the rock then settle. All the explanation presented and I have found shows me that others have experienced it too. Some focus it and for some it comes naturally.

For me though when it happens I instinctively know that my mind will drop into silence. The ending effect of zazen when it happens is mental peace and calm that last two or three days no matter what situation I am in. Under zazen without this experience the peace and calm only lasts several hours. My reason for bringing this up was not to understand why but if others have had this experience and if it may be an effect of zazen.

Gassho
拡手
Koushu

Satoday

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

[Jishin]

Thank you, Jundo, for your sage comments on accupunture. There is absolutely no evidence that any of that is true, or that the results of acupuncture are anything other than a placebo effect. Unfortunately, in the west, it is seen as something almost magical because it has a long history. Bleeding people has a long history too, and it is useless. And I say this as someone who had believed in such things (accupunture, not bleeding) when I was young and foolish.

Gassho,

Kirk

#sat

Hi,

Acupuncture is reimbursed by insurance companies in the USA and also regulated by licensing bodies.

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Ryumon]

Homeopathy is covered by the national health system in France, but that doesn't mean it works. It's just got a strong lobby.

Gassho,

Kirk (sat)

[Jishin]

Homeopathy is covered by the national health system in France, but that doesn't mean it works. It's just got a strong lobby.

Gassho,

Kirk (sat)

===============

What kind of training is required to become an acupuncturist?

If you want to become an acupuncturist in the United States, you can study acupuncture at any school accredited by the Accreditation Commission for Acupuncture and Oriental Medicine (ACAOM), which is recognized by the US Department of Education as the authority in this field.

Applicants to accredited acupuncture schools must first complete at least two years of study at the baccalaureate level, and many schools require a bachelor’s degree. Acupuncture programs often welcome students from all educational backgrounds, so if you have not yet studied any form of medicine, you can still pursue this path.

Students in acupuncture programs take courses in Oriental medical theory, diagnosis and treatment techniques, Oriental herbal studies, integrated acupuncture and herbal clinical training, and biomedical clinical sciences. You will also learn how to manage an acupuncture practice and communicate with clients.

If you successfully complete your program, you will graduate with a master’s degree, which is the minimum educational requirement to practice in most states.

Are there any certification or licensure requirements?

In the United States, all but six states require acupuncturists to obtain a license to practice. California has its own licensing examination for acupuncturists, but the remaining states require acupuncturists to either pass certain National Certification Commission for Acupuncture and Oriental Medicine (NCCAOM) examinations or complete the NCCAOM certification program.

To become certified by the NCCAOM, you must graduate from a ACAOM-accredited program, complete a clean needle technique course offered by the Council of Colleges of Acupuncture and Oriental Medicine (CCOAM), and pass certification exams in the foundations of Oriental medicine, acupuncture, and biomedicine. Those who complete the certification program are known as NCCAOM Diplomates.

Each state defines the scope of what a Licensed Acupuncturist (L.Ac.) may do in his or her practice, and an acupuncturist who has been licensed in one state may not be able to practice in other states.

How long does it take to become an acupuncturist?

A master’s degree program in acupuncture can take three years to complete and you can begin the process of NCCAOM certification in the final year of your program. (7 years of training after High School, or 19 years total of education if you count first grade).

========

http://www.evidencebasedacupuncture.org/present-research/other-indications/

========

Without being an acupuncturist, I can understand the physiology of why it works in certain cases. I know of many cases of efficacy. Lots of evidence research on it.

Gassho, Jishin, ST

[Jundo]

Without being an acupuncturist, I can understand the physiology of why it works in certain cases. I know of many cases of efficacy. Lots of evidence research on it.

Gassho, Jishin, ST

If you say so, Doc, then I must go with your expert opinion.

Gassho, J

SatToday

[Jundo]

For me though when it happens I instinctively know that my mind will drop into silence. The ending effect of zazen when it happens is mental peace and calm that last two or three days no matter what situation I am in.

It is not uncommon to have such an experience of multiple days of peace. After Sesshin or a particularly resounding sit is very common.

Some folks (not you) go on to feel then that such feeling is where it is at, and the point of Practice is to attain and maintain such feelings longer and longer. Some my feel that such a state is realization, and before and after (often some crash follows) is not. One can become very attached to such states.

To do so is an error.

Such state is such state and, to the wise, the before and after is not before or after. Hard to explain. I tried to do so a bit here ...

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?15111-WHAT-s-OFTEN-MISSING-in-SHIKANTAZA-EXPLANATIONS

Gassho, J

SatToday

[Jishin]

Freeze framed zazen

If you say so, Doc, then I must go with your expert opinion.

Gassho, J

SatToday

I am not an expert on it and cannot either recommend it or not recommend it. I do understand the physiology behind it in some cases from a western point of view that result from a needle penetrating skin such as histamine release, increased blood flow, distraction from other source of pain, stimulating a nerve that is connected to the problematic area, etc.

Also, placebo is a very effective form of treatment and highly dependent on the provider.

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Jundo]

Hi Jishin,

Placebo effect and hypnosis used to be dirty words in the medical community, in my understanding, but are now both accepted methods of treatment.

http://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/the-placebo-effect-amazing-and-real-201511028544

http://www.mayoclinic.org/tests-procedures/hypnosis/basics/definition/prc-20019177

Gassho, J

SatToday

[Jishin]

Freeze framed zazen

Hi Jishin,

Placebo effect and hypnosis used to be dirty words in the medical community, in my understanding, but are now both accepted methods of treatment.

http://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/the-placebo-effect-amazing-and-real-201511028544

http://www.mayoclinic.org/tests-procedures/hypnosis/basics/definition/prc-20019177

Gassho, J

SatToday

Yes, and it begins when you shake a patients hand and begin to form a good or bad doctor-patient alliance (or maybe beforehand if you have a good or bad reputation).

Same procedure may be performed under same circumstances but with different outcomes. What is the variable?

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_