mindfulness

[Jundo]

Re: mindfulness

I, for one, have heard a lot of dung about so-called "Zen shin" from martial artists.

I know exactly what you mean. It is often explained as one's getting in touch with the "Force", much like in Star Wars.

Let me mention, though, another common meaning of "mindfulness" in Zen-glish that, I believe, is perfectly valid. That is to develop some recognition and awareness of the causes and conditions of our mental states, the arising and passing of the various thoughts and emotions that pop in and out of mind. I think that you are doing that when, for example, on your "anger" blog, you discuss your sensitivity to feelings of anger as they begin to arise within you.

http://bodhiarmour.blogspot.com/2008/05 ... anger.html

I think that this is also a fundamental practice of Buddhism, right back to some of the first words out of the Buddha's mouth in Jetta Grove.

Now, the word "mindful" of these causes and conditions might, again, be a poor translation (is it?). But to the extent Nishijima Roshi just tosses out "Buddhism is not being mindful" without explaining his special meaning in saying so, well, it is going to leave folks thinking that we don't need to have any awareness of our thoughts and emotions in Buddhism, the causes and conditions of their arising and passing away. I know that Nishijima Roshi is focused on Zazen much more than any special study of the psychology of Buddhism, but he does not mean that our thoughts and emotions are to be neglected or ignored. Not at all.

Roshi's Buddhism is fine, but his English leaves something to be desired.

Gassho, Jundo

[Jundo]

Re: mindfulness

I credit my improved recognition, and choice of response, to feelings such as anger as an effect of sitting Zazen more regularly and for longer periods.

I don't really go around in a state of 'being mindful' of my emotions, but, when I feel myself getting angry I now just find I say to myself "right, you're getting angry" and that recognition gives me more of a choice in how I act; its like I've created a little gap between what I feel and what I do.

Call this what you will, but it isn't what I would call 'being mindful' because I don't feel I'm really doing anything if you know what I mean (also, its not yet infallible, so watch yer' f***ing mouths! :twisted: )

Regards,

H.

What we call it does not matter. I would say that you are being rather "mindful" of the emotion when you feel it starting to arise and allow a little gap, but that is just a word.

And, yes, I think just sitting is the most effective of all "techniques" (another word).

Gassho, Jundo

[Bansho]

Re: mindfulness

Hi guys,

Now, the word "mindful" of these causes and conditions might, again, be a poor translation (is it?). But to the extent Nishijima Roshi just tosses out "Buddhism is not being mindful" without explaining his special meaning in saying so, well, it is going to leave folks thinking that we don't need to have any awareness of our thoughts and emotions in Buddhism, the causes and conditions of their arising and passing away. I know that Nishijima Roshi is focused on Zazen much more than any special study of the psychology of Buddhism, but he does not mean that our thoughts and emotions are to be neglected or ignored. Not at all.

Exactly. I think it's great to have critical discussions like this to explore what is precisely meant by certain terms, but I also see a dangerous tendency to throw the baby out with the bath water. It somehow seems fashionable these days to try to eradicate certain aspects of our practice and celebrate that as akin to discovering that the emperor has no clothes. Well, maybe, but I dare say that what's left can hardly be called Buddhist practice.

Mindfulness, (Pali 'sati') is the seventh factor of the Noble Eightfold Path, described as follows:

Right mindfulness

Right mindfulness (samyak-sm?ti • samm?-sati), also translated as "right memory", "right awareness" or "right attention". In this factor, the practitioner should constantly keep their mind alert to phenomena as they are affecting the body and mind. They should be mindful and deliberate, making sure not to act or speak through the power of inattention or forgetfulness. In the Pali Canon, it is explained as:

And what, monks, is right mindfulness?
(i) There is the case where a monk remains focused on the body in & of itself — ardent, aware, & mindful — putting away greed & distress with reference to the world.
(ii) He remains focused on feelings in & of themselves — ardent, aware, & mindful — putting away greed & distress with reference to the world.
(iii) He remains focused on the mind in & of itself — ardent, aware, & mindful — putting away greed & distress with reference to the world.
(iv) He remains focused on mental qualities in & of themselves — ardent, aware, & mindful — putting away greed & distress with reference to the world.
This, monks, is called right mindfulness.

Although the above instruction is given to the male monastic order, it is also meant for the female monastic order and can be practiced by lay followers from both genders.

Bhikkhu Bodhi, a monk of the Theravadin tradition, further explain the concept of mindfulness as follows:

The mind is deliberately kept at the level of bare attention, a detached observation of what is happening within us and around us in the present moment. In the practice of right mindfulness the mind is trained to remain in the present, open, quiet, and alert, contemplating the present event. All judgments and interpretations have to be suspended, or if they occur, just registered and dropped.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eightfold_ ... indfulness

Nishijima Roshi clearly considers the Eightfold Path as being part of our Buddhist practice, indeed practicing the 'True Way', as he calls it, is perfectly exemplified by the complete exertion of our body-mind in Zazen. Here is an excerpt from "A Heart-to-Heart Chat on Buddhism with Old Master Gudo":

'The Eightfold Path' consists of 'True View', 'True Thinking', 'True Speech', 'True Action', 'True Livelihood', 'True Effort', 'True Consciousness' and 'True Balance'. These call for us to engage in and hold proper and balanced viewpoints, proper and balanced ideas, proper and balanced manners of speaking, proper and balanced conduct, proper and balanced ways of living, proper and balanced courses of endeavor, proper and balanced states of mind and proper and balanced states of body... When each of these types of personal actions and behavior are in a state of perfect balance - such is what we call 'The True Way'.

'True Consciousness' is an unusual translation of samm?-sati, however, by his subsequent reference to 'proper and balanced states of mind', I think it is clear that he's referring to mindfulness, call it what you may. Jundo - you translated this text - would other translations of the original Japanese have been possible here?

Lastly, what did Dogen Zenji have to say about all this? His vision of the Buddha-Dharma breathed new life into it, while at the same time upholding traditional Buddhist teachings, as can be seen from this exerpt from the Shobogenzo, chapter Sanjushichihon-bodaibumpo:

Mindfulness of the body (kanshin) is the body's mindfulness (shinkan) that is the body's, and not any other's, mindfulness. Mindfulness such as this is truly venerable. When the body's mindfulness is realized, the mind's mindfulness cannot be found - even though you look for it, it does not manifest itself.

So basically what he's saying here doesn't differ from what we've been saying in this discussion. When we are mindful in our bodily actions - and not caught up in idealistic conceptions of what we are doing in our minds - then we are being mindful in the true sense.

Gassho
Ken

[will]

Re: mindfulness

So basically what he's saying here doesn't differ from what we've been saying in this discussion. When we are mindful in our bodily actions - and not caught up in idealistic conceptions of what we are doing in our minds - then we are being mindful in the true sense.

I think it's important to point out that when we start sitting Zazen their might be a tendancy for some to have those "idealistic conceptions " that you mentioned. Some may go full force at watching the breath and thoughts a little too much , so that it becomes a focusing instead of an opening (as was my case). I think it's important to point out that it's a gentle process, nothing can really be forced. Like petting a Kitten. (excuse the analogy).

In addition, there's really not one thing to be mindful of. It's more of just experiencing the body and thoughts simultaneously. One shouldn't have importance over the other. Some hear all this talk about thoughts and feelings, which I think, tends to reinforce them rather than balance them.

G,W

[Bansho]

Re: mindfulness

I think it's important to point out that when we start sitting Zazen their might be a tendancy for some to have those "idealistic conceptions " that you mentioned. Some may go full force at watching the breath and thoughts a little too much , so that it becomes a focusing instead of an opening (as was my case). I think it's important to point out that it's a gentle process, nothing can really be forced. Like petting a Kitten. (excuse the analogy).

In addition, there's really not one thing to be mindful of. It's more of just experiencing the body and thoughts simultaneously. One shouldn't have importance over the other. Some hear all this talk about thoughts and feelings, which I think, tends to reinforce them rather than balance them.

Yes.

Gassho
Ken

[Bansho]

Re: mindfulness

Hi Harry,

And is this awareness an awareness that strives to be "right", that we must strive to make "right"? Or is it an awareness we simply recognize, and actualize, as naturally "right" in real practice?

I believe this is what Roshi was pointing to with his statements on "mindfulness"

Yes, I'd say it's the latter as well, i.e. actualized awareness in our real practice. Nicely put. (BTW, 'samma' is a word which always sounds a bit stiff and artificial when translated.)

Gassho
Ken

[Stephanie]

Re: mindfulness

mindfulness, lol

[Jarkko]

Re: mindfulness

hey people,

english language is very funny. Mind-Fulnes. hey! what mind is full of? or under-standing... standing under? what that means?
it's just words after words. knowing is flowing.

simple Gassho
for
a simple man

jarkko

[Stephanie]

Re: mindfulness

Mindfulness, (Pali 'sati') is the seventh factor of the Noble Eightfold Path, described as follows:

Right mindfulness

Right mindfulness (samyak-sm?ti • samm?-sati), also translated as "right memory", "right awareness" or "right attention". In this factor, the practitioner should constantly keep their mind alert to phenomena as they are affecting the body and mind. They should be mindful and deliberate, making sure not to act or speak through the power of inattention or forgetfulness. In the Pali Canon, it is explained as:

And what, monks, is right mindfulness?
(1) There is the case where a monk remains focused on the body in & of itself — ardent, aware, & mindful — putting away greed & distress with reference to the world.
(2) He remains focused on feelings in & of themselves — ardent, aware, & mindful — putting away greed & distress with reference to the world.
(3) He remains focused on the mind in & of itself — ardent, aware, & mindful — putting away greed & distress with reference to the world.
(4) He remains focused on mental qualities in & of themselves — ardent, aware, & mindful — putting away greed & distress with reference to the world.
This, monks, is called right mindfulness.

This is helpful, because the distinction I would make is that most "pop mindfulness" focuses on #1, while I think #3 or #4, or even #2, are more likely to lead to insight into the nature of reality. Most "pop mindfulness" I encounter promotes the idea of "doing the dishes and only doing the dishes," with the emphasis being on trying to quiet the discursive mind and bring the attention to the physical sensations of the action one is doing. Which is a good practice for doing things well, but I think almost beside the point when it comes to trying to discern the nature of reality. I think it's quite easy to completely miss the point in this sort of practice, with this notion that you need to turn your mind completely off before you can hope to have true insight into the way things are.

You don't! All you need to do is #3 - watch the mind do what it does without identifying with it. I think this relates to shikantaza-based practice in that it mirrors what one does on the cushion: observe what arises and passes away without pursuing a special state of mind. Learning how to appropriately direct the attention to the content of mind as it arises is something I've found to be like a "shortcut" that bypasses the need to develop intense concentration before bliss & insight arise.

[Yugen]

Re: mindfulness

This is an absolutely fascinating thread.

Actually I have found Nishijima Roshi's English to be absolutely fine. It seems to me discussion thus far has focused upon the meaning of mindfulness, and we have accepted "awareness" as an inoffensive synonym. The relevant statement to this discussion that has caused much indigestion is "mindfulness is an idealistic philosophy." Upon much closer examination of that statement, we can understand Nishijima's statement that Mindfulness [itself] is not Buddhism, or Buddhist practice.

If one reads "Three Philosophies and One Reality" or "Buddhism and Action," among other works by Nishijima, we are introduced to the Buddhist Theory of Four views: idealism (subjectivity), materialism (objectivity), the synthesis of these perspectives (action, or realism), and the ineffable expression of reality.

Mindfulness, in Nishijima's view, belongs to the world of idealism - mindfulness of thoughts, actions, etc. that are reflected in our minds. Mindfulness alone belongs in this first view, or dimension. Without accompanying action, or choice, it is not manifested in the reality of our lives - and Buddhism is a philosophy of action, not one of reflection. Mindfulness, or awareness, allows us to observe the scenery of our emotional lives, the reflection of things occurring in our inner landscape - based upon this awareness, we make choices about the action we will take. Without mindfulness/awareness, our actions are driven by delusion, karmic circumstances which we repeat, or assumptions about our world driven by our "small selves" which have no basis in reality. Mindfulness allows us to disconnect our past from present (and future) and discontinue karmic momentum (or habituation), and make a choice without the clutter of fear, delusion, etc. The combination of our subjective and objective views is expressed as action - and that is the full expression of Buddhism. Nishijima's statement that Mindfulness is an idealistic philosophy is nothing but an expression of his philosophy that mindfulness is an idealistic, or subjective view, the first component of his four views, or theory of Buddhism.

Thich Nhat Hanh's expression of Mindfulness is no different. While he makes much of the practice of mindfulness, it is always attached to a corresponding action - honest and compassionate speech, right livelihood, compassionate action, engaged Buddhism - even mindful walking - which displays kindness to the earth by minimizing our impact. The practice of mindfulness, or awareness alone, is a first step towards understanding and disaggregating our habitual behaviors or actions from our small selves, our delusions, and becoming aware of our larger selves, from which understanding right action naturally follows (much paraphrasing).

Gassho,
Alex

[Fuken]

Re: mindfulness

What about "No Mind"? or Mu-shin for the so inclined?

Just curious,
Jordan

[will]

Re: mindfulness

Not to Jordan's question.

If one is before thinking, where is the idealism? Is it in the hand? The eye?

G,W

[will]

Re: mindfulness

What about "No Mind"? or Mu-shin for the so inclined?

I would say that it seems to be the same as Zen practice. The only difference I think (besides the actual practice) is that some Zen Buddhist groups don't use any kind of violence.

Gassho Will