trying to quit smoking, all and any advice welcome

[Tom A.]

If it hasn't been said, three ways of reframing are invaluable to me as I quit:

1. Not waiting for something special to happen. I'm just quitting tobacco use, nothing special. Day one is the same as day 50 or 2500. When I have my last bit of tobacco, that is when I'm done! otherwise what am I waiting for and when will I get there? Some arbitrary number of days?

2. Tobacco is what causes the withdrawal symptoms. Why would I keep doing something that makes me feel so terrible? And just for the purpose of feeling like a non-tobacco user! Its digging a pit only to climb out again! Non tobacco users don't have withdrawal pangs, only tobacco users do! Any benefit is negligable because all I am doing is a chain until I die, and the chain's purpose is just to feel like a non tobacco user aka to not have withdrawal pangs! I can break the chain and feel little uncomfortable pangs (I tell myself its like a cold, nothing worse. I wouldn't miss a day of work if this feeling was caused by a cold), and for a little while, maybe moments of at the most 20 minutes of misery that pass in a few days... or I can continue the chain of tobacco use misery, withdrawal pangs, bad health, worrry and lethargy.

3. I am whole and complete before temptation is completely gone! So why would I worry about feeling miserable for a little while now and again. The sky is cloudy and stormy sometimes and sometimes it is clear and sunny but the sky is just wholely and completely the sky. No need to make it into a problem. I'm still the same person, no need to change anything. It is a Shikantaza non-problem problem that exists largely only between my ears.

Gassho,
Tom

SATLAH

[Jishin]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varenicline

Gassho, Jishin, __/stlah\__

[Bion]

trying to quit smoking, all and any advice welcome

the title says it all....i am trying to quit cold turkey, but ive tried a million times before...the thing is, besides getting winded walking up the stairs to my apt., i want to start running soon....i tried last night, or early this morning to be precise, and let myself down again this afternoon, after waking up at 1, basically a 12 hour nap, and called and bummed a fiver for a cheap pack of cigarettes...

I want to beat this addiction!!!

Gassho,

Richard

s@ 2day

What you’re lacking is the determination Richard. I quit cold turkey one morning of a January 1st. Just say you’ll stop, throw away any remaining cigs right now and simply focus on making it past the next craving without giving in. Take it one craving at a time and if you make it past each one, you’ll CONTINUE TO BE A NON-SMOKER. Don’t pressure yourself into replacing cigs with something else. Just don’t smoke the next one. Eventually the craving subsides, your body will stop asking for nicotine and slowly, your mind will too. Every time you fall off the bandwagon you’ve ruined every progress made. Use that as motivation. [emoji1]

[emoji1374] SatToday lah (Sorry for the extra long paragraph there)

[Jishin]

What you’re lacking is the determination Richard. I quit cold turkey one morning of a January 1st. Just say you’ll stop, throw away any remaining cigs right now and simply focus on making it past the next craving without giving it. Take it one craving at a time and if you make it past each one, you’ll CONTINUE TO BE A NON-SMOKER. Don’t pressure yourself into replacing cigs with something else. Just don’t smoke the next one. Eventually the craving subsides, your body will stop asking for nicotine and slowly, your mind will too. Every time you fall off the bandwagon you’ve ruined every progress made. Use that as motivation. [emoji1]

[emoji1374] SatToday lah (Sorry for the extra long paragraph there)

You don't wish Nicotine Use Disorder away with determination. It is like diabetes, hypertension, obesity or any other medical condition. Cold turkey is not as successful as other methods. Please talk to you doctor.

Gassho, Jishin, __/stlah\__

[Bion]

You don't wish Nicotine Use Disorder away with determination. It is like diabetes, hypertension, obesity or any other medical condition. Cold turkey is not as successful as other methods. Please talk to you doctor.

Gassho, Jishin, __/stlah\__

I quit like that and was a smoker for over a decade. It was clearly more successful FOR ME than other stuff I tried [emoji6]

[emoji1374] SatToday lah

[Jishin]

I quit like that and was a smoker for over a decade. It was clearly more successful FOR ME than other stuff I tried [emoji6]

[emoji1374] SatToday lah

The sun has risen every time I have gone to sleep for the past 54 years. Therefore I control when the sun rises. All I need to do is go to sleep and it rises. Furthermore, I recommend my method of controlling the sun to anyone as it has worked for me for the past 54 years.

Gassho, Jishin, __/stlah\__

[Nengei]

The current, peer-reviewed research on quitting tobacco shows an advantage for people who use a combination approach: pharmaceutical (varenicline or bupropion) + nicotine replacement at the start (patch or gum or...) + counseling. The nicotine is to get you over the hump; the drugs and the counseling are to get you through the months and years that follow (you won't need them forever). Using a tobacco quit-line (telephone calls) have been shown to increase success. Most important is that while these things help, they are aids to quitting, not the main event. They do not quit for you. The primary change that has to happen is between your ears. You have to want what is on the other side of success more than you want to smoke right now, and that has to be your first priority. Justify it however you need to, but your own wellness has to come first. Draw a dark line between you and smoking, behaviors that lead to smoking, and activities that you associate with smoking (for me, bars and certain associates). Realize that no matter what it was that led you to smoking, no matter whose "fault" it is, you are the one who is responsible for making the change if you want it to happen. No one can do it for you. Mayo Clinic has good resources to help. While you probably wouldn't come here to use their services in person, this information may be helpful to you in finding local resources. Many states have statewide programs and quit lines that are free and can be quite helpful.

[Jishin]

The current, peer-reviewed research on quitting tobacco shows an advantage for people who use a combination approach: pharmaceutical (varenicline or bupropion) + nicotine replacement at the start (patch or gum or...) + counseling. The nicotine is to get you over the hump; the drugs and the counseling are to get you through the months and years that follow (you won't need them forever). Using a tobacco quit-line (telephone calls) have been shown to increase success. Most important is that while these things help, they are aids to quitting, not the main event. They do not quit for you. The primary change that has to happen is between your ears. You have to want what is on the other side of success more than you want to smoke right now, and that has to be your first priority. Justify it however you need to, but your own wellness has to come first. Draw a dark line between you and smoking, behaviors that lead to smoking, and activities that you associate with smoking (for me, bars and certain associates). Realize that no matter what it was that led you to smoking, no matter whose "fault" it is, you are the one who is responsible for making the change if you want it to happen. No one can do it for you. Mayo Clinic has good resources to help. While you probably wouldn't come here to use their services in person, this information may be helpful to you in finding local resources. Many states have statewide programs and quit lines that are free and can be quite helpful.

[emoji106]

[Bion]

The sun has risen every time I have gone to sleep for the past 54 years. Therefore I control when the sun rises. All I need to do is go to sleep and it rises. Furthermore, I recommend my method of controlling the sun to anyone as it has worked for me for the past 54 years.

Gassho, Jishin, __/stlah\__

Great, do that! [emoji3526]

[emoji1374] SatToday lah


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jishin]

[emoji846]

[Tom A.]

You don't wish Nicotine Use Disorder away with determination. It is like diabetes, hypertension, obesity or any other medical condition. Cold turkey is not as successful as other methods. Please talk to you doctor.

Gassho, Jishin, __/stlah\__

It depends. My intuition says that medication and bad reasoning is less effective than good reasoning alone. ie medication plus cognitive therapy is the way to go and cognitive therapy is more effective than medication when done right.

Why do people use tobacco? Because they believe they get something from it and/or because people tell them quitting is a horrible ordeal and they believe it. Both beliefs can be cured through cognitive therapy.

Gassho,

Tom

SatLah

[Jundo]

It depends. My intuition says that medication and bad reasoning is less effective than good reasoning alone. ie medication plus cognitive therapy is the way to go and cognitive therapy is more effective than medication when done right.

Why do people use tobacco? Because they believe they get something from it and/or because people tell them quitting is a horrible ordeal and they believe it. Both beliefs can be cured through cognitive therapy.

Gassho,

Tom

SatLah

I would put some trust in Jishin, who is actually a doctor/psychiatrist specialized in addiction issues. He can't give medical advise over the internet, of course, but if he suggests something to learn about, I would definitely discuss it with someone's own physician about whether it is right for you.

By the way, this thread was actually started about 5 years ago! I hope that some of the original posters actually managed to quit!

"Quitting is easy, done it 1000 times!"

In fact, I quit about 35 years ago. Zazen helped get me through the big craving spasms until they would pass.

JUST DON'T STICK A CIG, NOT EVEN ONE, IN YOUR FACE! Very easy. Sticking it in any other lower orifice is fine.

Gassho, J

[Tom A.]

I would put some trust in Jishin, who is actually a doctor/psychiatrist specialized in addiction issues. He can't give medical advise over the internet, of course, but if he suggests something to learn about, I would definitely discuss it with someone's own physician about whether it is right for you.

By the way, this thread was actually started about 5 years ago! I hope that some of the original posters actually managed to quit!

"Quitting is easy, done it 1000 times!"

In fact, I quit about 35 years ago. Zazen helped get me through the big craving spasms until they would pass.

JUST DON'T STICK A CIG, NOT EVEN ONE, IN YOUR FACE! Very easy. Sticking it in any other lower orifice is fine.

Gassho, J

Oh absolutely! I agree. And I respect Jishin and would perhaps seek him out if he practiced in the Minneapolis area.

Let me re-say what I intended to get across: eliminate the reasons why you smoke and increase the reasons to quit and it will be a lot easier to quit. A simple pros and cons. Re- framing the non-issue issue. Moving the reasons to smoke from the “reasons to smoke” column to the “reasons to quit” column.

Thankfully the Socratic method, common sense, and logic are not medical advice, here are some examples:

Can you want to smoke and not want to smoke at the same time?

It is not a false dichotomy, you either want to or you don’t.

A can’t be B.

Craving (as defined for the sake of this argument) only happens when you want something but can’t have it.

If you don’t want to smoke, then why would you crave a cigarette?

Think about this logic: If somebody says they are quit, are honest that they are quit, and are honest that they don’t want a cigarette, there will be no craving on their part.

They will have withdrawal symptoms but those are not the same as cravings. The symptoms are painful sometimes, and the quitter may or may not have a sleepless night or two but they know they don’t want a cigarette so it is a non-issue. There are just symptoms to get through, like a those of a cold. But to even say they have to “get through” symptoms is misleading for they already made the decision to quit and the last cigarette was their last one. Otherwise when would you know you ever kicked the addiction? 5 years? 10 years? When you die? Rather than arbitrary numbers that people throw around, why not be done with the last cigarette?

(If you were to throw around arbitrary numbers, why not: get through 24 hours, then 3 days, then 3 weeks and the rest is in your head? Because I believe for some people with the right mindset, right off the bat, they can quit and feel good.)

Does the cigarette cause the symptoms of nicotine addiction or are some people born with nicotine genes and nicotine specific receptors and are determined to be addicted to nicotine? Be clear on this. The answer is a resounding: nicotine causes the addiction no matter how pre-disposed a person is to addiction. Even if they had nicotine genes and receptors:

Non-tobacco users never have nicotine withdrawal.

If something causes a disease and you want to be cured of the disease, it follows that you just stop what causes the disease and you don’t wait around wondering if it is cured or not, similarly, once a person quits tobacco, they don’t need to sit around and wonder if they actually quit or not. They’d just as likely stick a cigarette in their ear as their mouth!

If somebody honestly quits tobacco and some evil mastermind ties them up and forces them to chain smoke cigarettes for a day, is this person then addicted to tobacco again even if they never touch a cigarette again of their own free will? Think about it. This proves how much quitting is between the ears. If you re-frame nicotine withdrawal as the sensation of poison leaving the body, it can feel pleasant.

If a tobacco addict woke up and tobacco were a scary poison of any other name but hypothetically just as addictive, mercury for instance, you’d easily quit no matter how addictive mercury would hypothetically be. This proves how much of tobacco addiction is a social construct.

Are there benefits of tobacco use that outweigh the risk and social stigma?

If the answer is no (I personally believe it is always a no) then why spend so much money playing roulette with your health and social standing only because you are afraid of withdrawal symptoms?

This means there are no real benefits to using tobacco and that you’d actually be better off burning your money!

Etc... etc.. I could go on and on. I didn’t even get to an examples of “challenges to cognitive distortions” bit regarding nicotine addiction.

Quitting, from a logical and common sense perspective and not a medical one is a simple three step process:

1. Quit and know you quit.

2. Rejoice immediately that you quit, it is a happy occasion and you have nothing to lose and much to gain. Always and often rejoice that you quit and never complain about or crave a cigarette.

3. Sit in Shikantaza with a radical equanimity beyond addicted and not addicted, all problems settled with the dial turned slightly past the middle on the Joy-O-Meter, cruising down Shikantaza highway with seeking nothing to gain, as the Big Zen Verb, having already arrived beyond not arriving, sitting instead as an extended yogic-like posture as being part of, and as, the wholeness and completeness of existence. Rejoice often at the sacredness of each moment, on or off the cushion, withdrawal symptoms or not, and try to leave the world a little better than you found it. Take a Shikantaza-like attitude of wholeness every time temptations float by your hook and you’ll be okay.

This is just me thinking logically and common sensically through the arbitrarily chosen problem of smoking or chewing tobacco that someone may or may not have. Do not take this as advice to be followed, it is a thought experiment and it is not in the least medical and will not help you out, you are doomed to fail if you try it.

For any medical advice, check with your doctor.

Gassho,
Tom

SatLah

[Nobodyhere]

Hello, all. This is an older thread but for people who still visit for advice, I will chime in. I was a four pack inveterate smoker for fourteen years, quit twelve years ago using this book ( please take the link off if not allowed )http://www.canadianis.com/jim/stopsm...llustrated.pdf. It's a CBT method pretty much. If I knew how to practice Zazen back then, I would've had it much easier but this alone was "easy" enough to get me going. If I could do it, anyone can. Quitting is the best thing one can do in this lifetime, an accomplishment which can be used to boost one's self confidence on a bad day. Message me with any questions. I am NOT a professional and each person is different and addictions mechanisms numberless. Ran over three sentences but I tried to be as concise as possible, my apologies.


SatToday
Silviu