What if the "clouds" come off as smog, sometimes?

[Aurkihnowe]

Hi, everyone, I have an issue. I suffer from OCD, and find myself indulging, almost totally against my will, in bouts of coprolalia. Coprolalia is the compulsion to utter obscene, degrading, blasphemous, and sexually inappropriate words or phrases. Thankfully, I do it under my breathe, so it only bothers ME, but what a bother! These thoughts spring up from a sense of vulnerability and frustration, which reverbs in my mind as anger or aversion. I have a lot of trauma on my history, not to hoist myself upon a cross, so it maybe PTSD as well. So, there's the background, now the question. What do I "do" with these utterences? They cause me great distress, and I get the notion also that I am emanating bad vibes.

Gassho Richard

[Kyotai]

Richard,

I am not sure if you have done so or if it is an option for you but seeking profession assistance strikes me near the top of the to do list. But, aside from that, it sounds as if these utterances are uncontrollable as you say. So maybe, just for now, you need to accept the situation as it is. It may be that you feel you are emanating bad vibes, perhaps you can follow it up with a silent "Gassho, " recognize your uncomfortableness and then move on with your day.

Just some thoughts

Gassho, Kyotai
ST

[Myosha]

Hello,

Not qualified to say diddly-squat, so:

Mantra - "Sit down and shut up."

Tempted - "Sit down and shut up."

Upset - "Sit down and shut up."

Happy? - Read Brad Warner, 'Sit Down And Shut Up'.


Gassho
Myosha
sat today

[Zenmei]

Hi, everyone, I have an issue. I suffer from OCD, and find myself indulging, almost totally against my will, in bouts of coprolalia. Coprolalia is the compulsion to utter obscene, degrading, blasphemous, and sexually inappropriate words or phrases. Thankfully, I do it under my breathe, so it only bothers ME, but what a bother! These thoughts spring up from a sense of vulnerability and frustration, which reverbs in my mind as anger or aversion. I have a lot of trauma on my history, not to hoist myself upon a cross, so it maybe PTSD as well. So, there's the background, now the question. What do I "do" with these utterences? They cause me great distress, and I get the notion also that I am emanating bad vibes.

Gassho Richard

First, yes, you should be getting regular treatment from a medical professional. The combination of western psychotherapy and meditation is very powerful medicine. I'm an addict with major depression and anxiety and therapy + Buddhism has helped me immensely in a relatively short time.
Sitting and mindfulness practice allowed me to watch my own thoughts, to separate the time between urge and action so that I can make a conscious decision about behaviors that used to be automatic.
This is a symptom. It sounds like you know where the actual problem is, and you need to address the root of the problem or nothing else you do will have any effect. You can shuffle your symptoms around, but until you deal with the trauma, you won't find resolution. I've heard good things about EMDR therapy for PTSD/trauma, but I'm not a therapist, just a crazy person.

Gassho, dudley
#sat

[Jishin]

Psychiatrist.

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Mp]

Richard,

I am not sure if you have done so or if it is an option for you but seeking profession assistance strikes me near the top of the to do list. But, aside from that, it sounds as if these utterances are uncontrollable as you say. So maybe, just for now, you need to accept the situation as it is. It may be that you feel you are emanating bad vibes, perhaps you can follow it up with a silent "Gassho, " recognize your uncomfortableness and then move on with your day.

Just some thoughts

Gassho, Kyotai
ST

Hello Richard,

I too am sorry that I don't have any words of wisdom other then professional help would probably be the best approach right now. I can also just send along some metta and hope you can find some peace to this.

Gassho
Shingen

s@today

[Jundo]

Hi Richard,

The following is my typical response to someone sitting Zazen together with some other issues requiring outside counseling or medication ... First and foremost, follow expert advice by true medical and psychological specialists on OCD and coprolalia, and do what they advice first and foremost.

Our emphasis here is on Shikantaza ... which may be said to be "being one" with what ails one, although not necessarily a cure for what ails one. HOWEVER, that "being one" with life ... can relieve much suffering in life. It is a strange thing ... we do not sit Shikantaza to be "better" or to make life "other than as it is" ...

... Yet, in the very stillness of letting life be "as is it" and embracing all of life ... and in dropping the hard borders and divisions between our "self" and the world ... this practice does thereby leave almost all people better ... and often does work an effective cure (or is one helpful part of the cure) ... from depression, stress, addiction, compulsive disorders, eating disorders, anger issues, self loathing ... you name it. How? Just by letting us be more at ease with life and peaceful in heart.

We do emphasize mindfulness of our thoughts and emotions ... but not as a form of meditation. Your realization that, in fact, your thoughts are obsessive is a first step in one of the most fundamental Teachings of Buddhism, for 2500 years and in all schools ... OUR THOUGHTS ARE JUST THOUGHTS! One can practice being aware of the different thoughts that come into mind. However, our Zazen is the radical non-doing of Shikantaza, and the "mind theatre" and tricks and games of the human mind is something that naturally we also become better able to recognize and avoid from sitting.

... I suspect that Shikantaza ... in its quietness, in the total stillness and acceptance ... would be something helpful with the "sense of vulnerability and frustration" you describe ...

Zazen is -NOT- a cure for many things ... it will not fix a bad tooth (just allow you to be present with the toothache ... you had better see a dentist, not a Zen teacher), cure cancer (although it may have some healthful effects and make one more attune to the process of chemotherapy and/or dying), etc. Zen practice will not cure your acne on your face, or fix your flat tire. All it will do is let one "be at one, and whole" ... TRULY ONE ... with one's pimples and punctured wheel, accepting and embracing of each, WHOLLY WHOLE with/as each one. There are many psychological problems or psycho/medical problems such as alcoholism that may require other therapies, although Zen can be part of a 12-Step program or such (a few Zen teachers in America with a drinking problem had to seek outside help). My feeling is that some things are probably best handled by medical, psychological or psychiatric treatment, not Zen teachers.

My feeling is that receiving outside treatment, medication AND "just sitting" can all work together.

-----------

Now, all that being said, try what works, so long as your psychological or medical professional approves! A "Mantra" of some kind might be an excellent idea if you feel an attack arising. Focus on that, see what happens. It need not be some magical incantation, but a simple phrase like "peace" or "love" or the like.

Let us know what happens.

Gassho, Jundo

SatToday

[Jishin]

My feeling is that receiving outside treatment, medication AND "just sitting" can all work

I think this is wonderful advice.

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Jakuden]

...and we will be here to sit with you on your journey. It may take longer than your small self would like to make positive habit changes, so why not just start by sitting and being ok with the way it all is today? [emoji4]
Gassho
Jakuden
SatToday
SatToday


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Aurkihnowe]

Good Afternoon, all! Thanks for all the replies and well wishes. I actually am taking medication for ocd, but there really is no "magic pill" that cures it, like ritalin for adhd, or a benzo for anxiety.I am going to start cognitive-behavioral therapy once i find a therapist i feel comfortable with. I have heard learning a new language would help with the repetetive utterances, and i chose french (i also plan on learning a little Pali, and Lakota (im from SD, so the native americans here are mostly lakota/dakota/nakota)...this morning i looked up the french word for anger, and it is "colere" with an accent on the first e. It's prounounced like cool-air, which i find serendipitous, because "cooling off" might be said to be a central teaching of the buddha. so now, when i feel the urge to swear under my breathe, i am going to practice saying colere, and then, gassho, or namaste, whichever comes to me first, if im REALLY feeling angry, say it as much for my self as for anybody else. Metta might also be an appropriate addendum. This way, until i deal with the underlying problem that is manifesting as anger and vulgarity, i can at least use a word that is more honest, like colere (anger), instead of racial epithets and sexual memes (i told you how much these utterances upset me, well, you know, my mother who slap my face HARD if she knew i was saying these things)

so, Metta, Gassho, to all,

Richard

p.s. i am working on getting my profile pic changed

p.p.s. i am also putting off starting zazen until new years day, its an OCD thing. i will be using jundo's videos as a jumping off point

good day

[Jishin]

Wonderful Richard!

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Mp]

Good Afternoon, all! Thanks for all the replies and well wishes. I actually am taking medication for ocd, but there really is no "magic pill" that cures it, like ritalin for adhd, or a benzo for anxiety.I am going to start cognitive-behavioral therapy once i find a therapist i feel comfortable with. I have heard learning a new language would help with the repetetive utterances, and i chose french (i also plan on learning a little Pali, and Lakota (im from SD, so the native americans here are mostly lakota/dakota/nakota)...this morning i looked up the french word for anger, and it is "colere" with an accent on the first e. It's prounounced like cool-air, which i find serendipitous, because "cooling off" might be said to be a central teaching of the buddha. so now, when i feel the urge to swear under my breathe, i am going to practice saying colere, and then, gassho, or namaste, whichever comes to me first, if im REALLY feeling angry, say it as much for my self as for anybody else. Metta might also be an appropriate addendum. This way, until i deal with the underlying problem that is manifesting as anger and vulgarity, i can at least use a word that is more honest, like colere (anger), instead of racial epithets and sexual memes (i told you how much these utterances upset me, well, you know, my mother who slap my face HARD if she knew i was saying these things)

so, Metta, Gassho, to all,

Richard

p.s. i am working on getting my profile pic changed

p.p.s. i am also putting off starting zazen until new years day, its an OCD thing. i will be using jundo's videos as a jumping off point

good day

Sounds like a great start Richard ... keep at it. =)

Gassho
Shingen

s@today

[Amelia]

There is no difference between New Years and today, and every day is a good day to start. I have had OCD like tendencies, like manic list keeping and ritualization, and whenever I have decided to pick a special day to start something, I always set myself for disappointment. Pushing myself out of my rituals and my comfort zone really helps, and I believe that is part of behavioral therapy. Best wishes to you, gassho.

Sat today

[Enjaku]

Hi Richard,

I'm a CBT Therapist and I supervise a small team of CBT therapists, all working with OCD on a daily basis. I also have a prior diagnosis of OCD myself, very similar to your experience by the sound of it. I also received EMDR therapy for PTSD, which was connected (this is very common).

I just wanted to share this to reassure you that the combination of CBT and zazen has been very beneficial for me. I no longer use medication and my occasional symptoms are manageable with support from my wife and my own supervisor. Shikantaza can be very challenging when intrusions are "loud" or intense, but I have found counting the breath is the best alternative at these times. I know Jundo sometimes recommends this when shikantaza is not possible.

A word of recommendation if I may - always seek a therapist who has specialist post-graduate qualifications in CBT. Behavioural therapy is currently enjoying another boom in popularity, leading many therapists to re-market themselves. Some claim to offer CBT to treat OCD / PTSD, sometimes with limited knowledge or expertise. OCD is a widely misunderstood condition and many of my patients have previously received unhelpful input from well meaning amateurs. The best way to avoid this is to ask lots of questions and scrutinise the therapist's actual qualifications.

I know OCD can feel frightening, confusing and isolating, not to mention frustrating and overwhelming. It helps me to remember that all things are impermanent. I wish you the best of luck. If you have any questions about finding a therapist or other resources, please feel free to send me a PM.

Gassho,
Alex
Sat

[Jishin]

Hi Richard,

I'm a CBT Therapist and I supervise a small team of CBT therapists, all working with OCD on a daily basis. I also have a prior diagnosis of OCD myself, very similar to your experience by the sound of it. I also received EMDR therapy for PTSD, which was connected (this is very common).

I just wanted to share this to reassure you that the combination of CBT and zazen has been very beneficial for me. I no longer use medication and my occasional symptoms are manageable with support from my wife and my own supervisor. Shikantaza can be very challenging when intrusions are "loud" or intense, but I have found counting the breath is the best alternative at these times. I know Jundo sometimes recommends this when shikantaza is not possible.

A word of recommendation if I may - always seek a therapist who has specialist post-graduate qualifications in CBT. Behavioural therapy is currently enjoying another boom in popularity, leading many therapists to re-market themselves. Some claim to offer CBT to treat OCD / PTSD, sometimes with limited knowledge or expertise. OCD is a widely misunderstood condition and many of my patients have previously received unhelpful input from well meaning amateurs. The best way to avoid this is to ask lots of questions and scrutinise the therapist's actual qualifications.

I know OCD can feel frightening, confusing and isolating, not to mention frustrating and overwhelming. It helps me to remember that all things are impermanent. I wish you the best of luck. If you have any questions about finding a therapist or other resources, please feel free to send me a PM.

Gassho,
Alex
Sat

I think this is great advice.

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_