Moving to the citayyy..Stevie Wonder!!!!!

[Aurkihnowe]

I have a question for anybody who is willing to answer....So this coming spring I am moving to a town near Lawrence KS, and they have a Zen center there....But it's Korean.... Basically my question is, what's the difference? Is there any? I am used to, or to be honest ( right speech) am just beginning to get into Soto and dogen.... That's Japanese Zen...I could look this up, but, quite frankly, Wikipedia can, and often is, edited by trolls and/or the ignorant....So does anyone know anything about korean Zen? There website doesn't give a clear view. I would post a link, but my computer is still in hock (or else I would've changed my profile pic... I've found an old selfie, I'm younger in it, but it's me). Just Google Kansas Zen center, to get an idea.

Gassho, Richard

[Aurkihnowe]

Oh, and don't worry, I plan to stay here online too, and get more involved

[Kaishin]

If it's in the Seung Sahn lineage (Kwan Um), and likely is, you will be doing a LOT of bowing and chanting. More koan centered. No sewing. A LOT of bowing (full body prostrations, usually 108 at weekly sessions). Less emphasis on meditation as the core practice. Did I mention bowing?

That is my recollection. I have a temple nearby but their style doesn't suit me.

-satToday

[Aurkihnowe]

Oh well, maybe not my thing....I look up to Ryokan, anyway....And ,"homeless kodo"....You know, loner types....I can still come here, tho

[Zenmei]

I have a question for anybody who is willing to answer....So this coming spring I am moving to a town near Lawrence KS, and they have a Zen center there....But it's Korean.... Basically my question is, what's the difference? Is there any? I am used to, or to be honest ( right speech) am just beginning to get into Soto and dogen.... That's Japanese Zen...I could look this up, but, quite frankly, Wikipedia can, and often is, edited by trolls and/or the ignorant....So does anyone know anything about korean Zen? There website doesn't give a clear view. I would post a link, but my computer is still in hock (or else I would've changed my profile pic... I've found an old selfie, I'm younger in it, but it's me). Just Google Kansas Zen center, to get an idea.

Gassho, Richard

It's a Kwan Um center. I live in Arkansas, and I've practiced with a group near here which is affiliated with the Kansas Zen Center. I almost drove up there for a retreat before I found the Soto school through Treeleaf. Their founder Seung Sahn was a pretty colorful guy. Very funny. He was a big fan of what he called "together action", chanting and bowing as a group.

There are quite a few dharma talks on YouTube from Kwan um teachers, I'd recommend them. All of them that I've watched have been good.

They don't practice shikantaza. In meditation I was instructed to hold a mantra (on the in breath say three times "who am I?" And once on the exhale "don't know"). Their regular practice involves more rinzai style koan study with dokusan examinations.

When I practiced, it was very similar to our zazenkai. Some chanting, one sitting period, dharma talk. About as much bowing as our monthly zazenkai. We didn't do 108 bows. Maybe it's different at an actual temple.

If you live there, you should check it out, see for yourself. What's the worst that could happen?

Gassho, dudley
#sat

[Amelia]

The Stevie Wonder pun did not fall deaf on me.

Gassho, sat today

[Aurkihnowe]

I think I will at least try it...Maybe before moving I can read some koans and read some seung sahn to see what I can glean from it...I don't plan on becomingly a monk anytime soon, so I can work with koans, chant if I like, and come here for Buddhist conversations.... I am a little bit scared of koan study though...

[Aurkihnowe]

Gassho, all

Richard

[Zenmei]

I think I will at least try it...Maybe before moving I can read some koans and read some seung sahn to see what I can glean from it...I don't plan on becomingly a monk anytime soon, so I can work with koans, chant if I like, and come here for Buddhist conversations.... I am a little bit scared of koan study though...

"Dropping ashes on the Buddha" was the book that scared me away from Zen when I was 15. Seung Sahn talks a lot about hitting people with a stick
After learning a bit about him and rereading it, I see now that a lot of the inscrutability came from the fact that English was not his best language. And he wasn't actually hitting people 30 times.
As much as I love Treeleaf and appreciate being able to sit with people across time and space (I still can't get over the fact that I sit weekly with people in 10 different countries), there's something about practicing in meatspace, hearing the sniffles and swallows, smelling each other's farts and perfume that humanizes the practice. It's nice if you can do it. Worth a try, anyway.

Gassho, dudley
#sat

[Kaisho]

I would encourage at least attending a beginner meeting. That way you can see what they are all about. I mean, if the practice checks out why not sit once in a while.
Seachel
Sat2day

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[Jundo]

Give it a try! Nice to sit with folks if you can.

When there, Practice what they Practice there. When here, Practice as we Practice here and sit Shikantaza "Just Sitting" at least once per day. This is not mutually exclusive. In fact, the universe is mutually conclusively inclusively intraclusive.

Gassho, J

SatToday

[themonk614]

I am a little bit scared of koan study though...

I myself did some koan study for quite sometime with a Zen teacher. No need to be scared of koan study. It's just another way of practicing...

Gassho,
Matt

SatToday

[Jishin]

Moving to the citayyy..Stevie Wonder!!!!!

Hi Richard,

Dogen may say our practice is Shikantaza and words and letters supplement our Shikantaza practice. Koan introspection is not our primary focus.

I think Seung Sahn once said that Shikantaza was very very hard and that favorite koans of his such as "Don't Know" and "What am I?" were much easier. I think what he was saying is that koan work is more structured and that makes it easier.

Rinzai folks have commented that Soto practitioners are lazy because all we do is sit. Soto folks may say that Rinzai folks are not so bright because they huff and puff and huff and puff until they get something out of a Koan. When they finally do they throw a big party and celebrate some kind of mysterious achievement. Seems to me that the Rinzai folks are placing too much emphasis on the bus ride destination whereas Soto folks enjoy the ride and the destination. Soto practioners do this by practice-enlightenment. Practice and enlightenment can not be divided and thus practice occurs simultaneously with enlightenment.

From a psychological perspective, Koan practice can serve as a thought blocking or thought substitution that can help with OCD/PTSD/Anxiety/Depression and many other conditions. The problem is that when not working on the Koan, the affliction may come right back. A permanent cure is not achieved. The elephant in the room that was being forcefully ignored reappears when your effort ceases. In Shikantaza, the elephant can just hang around if it wants to. If not, not. It's all good. After a while the elephant goes away on its own or we make peace with it. I mention this bit on psych difficulties because you brought it up on a different thread. Jundo mentioned that you should probably engage the services of a mental health professional such as a psychiatrist/psychologist/therapist for your difficulties and not rely on Zen only for the troubles that you are having. I think this is very good advice from our teacher.

I prefer Shikantaza. Just makes more sense to me. Not for everybody though.

My 2 cents.

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Myosha]

. . . the universe is mutually conclusively inclusively intraclusive.

Hello,

Easy for YOU to say.


Gassho
Myosha
sat today

[Jakuden]

Hi Richard,

Dogen may say our practice is Shikantaza and words and letters supplement our Shikantaza practice. Koan introspection is not our primary focus.

I think Seung Sahn once said that Shikantaza was very very hard and that favorite koans of his such as "Don't Know" and "What am I?" were much easier. I think what he was saying is that koan work is more structured and that makes it easier.

Rinzai folks have commented that Soto practitioners are lazy because all we do is sit. Soto folks may say that Rinzai folks are not so bright because they huff and puff and huff and puff until they get something out of a Koan. When they finally do they throw a big party and celebrate some kind of mysterious achievement. Seems to me that the Rinzai folks are placing too much emphasis on the bus ride destination whereas Soto folks enjoy the ride and the destination. Soto practioners do this by practice-enlightenment. Practice and enlightenment can not be divided and thus practice occurs simultaneously with enlightenment.

From a psychological perspective, Koan practice can serve as a thought blocking or thought substitution that can help with OCD/PTSD/Anxiety/Depression and many other conditions. The problem is that when not working on the Koan, the affliction may come right back. A permanent cure is not achieved. The elephant in the room that was being forcefully ignored reappears when your effort ceases. In Shikantaza, the elephant can just hang around if it wants to. If not, not. It's all good. After a while the elephant goes away on its own or we make peace with it. I mention this bit on psych difficulties because you brought it up on a different thread. Jundo mentioned that you should probably engage the services of a mental health professional such as a psychiatrist/psychologist/therapist for your difficulties and not rely on Zen only for the troubles that you are having. I think this is very good advice from our teacher.

I prefer Shikantaza. Just makes more sense to me. Not for everybody though.

My 2 cents.

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

I like the analogy of the elephant. It may take up a lot of room sometimes, but who cares if all you are doing is sitting anyway [emoji12]
Gassho
Jakuden
SatToday


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