Zen books, reading order, and how I read some books

[Kyosei]

Hey friends.

There is a lot of recommended books here; some are true jewels! But I guess it would be nice if there was a reading order, like a "standardized curriculum", maybe for new members, or really new folks. But I think even experienced people could benefit of this.

Maybe something like this list I found somewhere while searching for a book (though I don't have any idea on what are these "stages", and it is a lot of books - of course recommended by the teachers there, not necessarily Jundo's indications):

https://zmm.mro.org/training/recommended-reading/

I thought of something like this: we would first read... lets say the "Buddhism for Dummies", then "Opening The Hand Of Though", then...maybe some recommended articles... but in a sequence, as to build a gradually understanding of the "theoretical matters" along Zazen practice, similar to what we're doing already with the guided readings on the Precepts.

And in respect to the way of reading some of this books, let me tell you I'm finding it really useful to read compiled "Dharma-Talk" books one chapter a time, right after each Zazen. For example, after my morning Zazen I could be reading Charlotte Joko Beck's "Everyday Zen", and after each evening Zazen, maybe the "Zen Mind Beginner's Mind" from Master Shunryu Suzuki. I don't know why, but seems the words resonates deeper, this way. It's almost like if I was listening to that Teisho during Zazen.

What do you think? Jundo?

Hope you be well and in peace.

Gassho

#SatToday.

[Jishin]

Hi,

Other than sitting daily, I think we all walk different paths. No standardized curriculum would address individual paths.

My 2 cents.

Gasso, Jishin, ST

[Geika]

Well, I don't know about a standardized curriculum. Each teaching is on it's own, pointing to the same thing. I can't imagine going through all the reading that goes on here and deciding on a specific order that would be meant to gradually introduce and train someone step by step in Zen. It's not really something that is guaranteed to be taught to someone by a sequence of steps. However, if Jundo sees some use in it, by all means, I'm on board. I think the series of talks for beginners is what's meant to fulfill the purpose you're getting at.

Reading after zazen sounds great to me, as long as I'm not thinking about what I am going to read or have read during zazen.

Gassho, sat today

[Jundo]

Hi Marcos,

On our list, the books marked with ** are recommended for beginners, and there are also very basic introductory books indicated which survey the varied flavors of Buddhism and Zen. There is no particular curriculum to fit all, but generally the books at the top of the list are among the most widely read.

SUGGESTED BOOK & MEDIA LIST for TREELEAF SANGHA

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?5711-SUGGESTED-BOOK-MEDIA-LIST-for-TREELEAF-SANGHA

Yes, the books on the Zen Mountain Monastery list would be geared toward their particular flavor of Koan Centered Zazen Practice, and mixed Soto-Rinzai style there. Looking through the list, it is not all what I would recommend. It is really a wide hodge-podge of Buddhist books, and could be confusing to new folks for that reason with so many varied approaches.

Not all Zen books, let alone all Buddhist books, are coming from the same place (although all from the same nonplace). We have these recommended readings to help folks sort out the varied flavors of Zen and Buddhist books ...

Special reading - once born twice born zen (part not 1)

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?6514-Special-reading-once-born-twice-born-zen-%28part-not-1%29

Special reading - once born twice born zen (part not 2)

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?6539-Special-reading-once-born-twice-born-zen-%28part-not-2%29

Special reading - eight types of enlightenment

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?6567-Special-reading-eight-types-of-enlightenment

I will toss this in too, please have a look:

Some Newer Folks Ask, "NOW WHAT?" - By Jundo

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?13595-Some-Newer-Folks-Ask-NOW-WHAT-By-Jundo

And, of course, the core is Sitting. The books and readings just are hands offering some form and direction to the wet clay.

Gassho, Jundo

SatToday

[Kokuu]

Hi Marcos

When I started at Treeleaf, I set myself a five year curriculum of Zen and dharma books to read taking in subjects such as introductory Zen, Zen History, Liturgy, Dogen, Mahayana Sutras and early Buddhism/the Pali Canon (I am a recovering academic...).

This has actually proved very useful and although the list has been modified over the years (I am currently somewhere in year four) it has meant I have got a good overview of the things I feel I need to understand.

If you would like help in knowing what might be a useful order in terms of what knowledge you would like to assemble, I would be happy to help, although am by no means an expert in the field.

Often it is also fine to wait and see what appeals to you after you have finished reading something. Each of us approaches things differently.

Gassho
Kokuu
#sattoday

[Rich]

Not a big book person but when I find some author I like will read everything they wrote over and over. When I have free time sometimes I'd rather just sit than read.

Sat today


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[Jundo]

Let me also shout that "learning" Zen is much like "learning" to make love (yes, a "Zen monk" said that ... although a married one ), be a 'performance artist' or a 'mom's home cooking' cook ...

Although there are some tricks and techniques to learn, aspects of the body and mind to embody and learn to take hold of, some techniques or unwritten 'by the touch' moves and recipes, countless ever changing scenes to learn from and experience, incorporating to one's personal repertoire day by day, much to add to one's personal "knowledge" beyond words to someday pass down to the next generation, many failures to learn from as well as delights, ever changing ingredients and places and attitudes and desires and conditions no two days alike, many things and sensations that just cannot be put into words, mastery through not trying and by just diving in and just doing, and ultimately nothing to attain but just this in this moment ... yum yum ...

... and although, yes, in our Practice, there are aspects of our history and basic doctrinal and philosophical positions that are good to learn and necessary (even a 'mom's home cook' needs to know a potato from a tomato, how much yeast for the bread to rise) ... even an artist needs to know the tricks of shadowing, perspective and mixing paints ...

... even though in this so-called 'way beyond words and letters' most of the Zen fellows of old had read the books before they burned them, realized that being "beyond words and letters" meant more feeling in the marrow the meaning and feel of the music and not getting lost in the written notes, and someone like Dogen was a walking encyclopedia of old Sutra and classic text quotations which he then bounced off to make his own Genzo-Jazz ...

... well, I would say that a "curriculum" misses the point of this organic winding path, with no place to go and nothing to attain but every new twist and turn down the "just here and here and here" practice-enlightenment Way.

Something like that.

Gassho, J

SatToday

[Jakuden]

... well, I would say that a "curriculum" misses the point of this organic winding path, with no place to go and nothing to attain but every new twist and turn down the "just here and here and here" practice-enlightenment Way.

Wow language may be limiting sometimes, but that really just nails it! An organic, winding path. A plant's roots absorb the nutrients and water it needs, some leaves grow and others wither, its manifestation a reflection of the conditions of the light, weather and soil.
Gassho
Jakuden
SatToday


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[Shokai]

Hi Marcos;

AND i MIGHT ADD; to remember that none of us gets out alive so like both Rich and Jundo have suggested, always make time for 'just sitting.' You can read and read until your mind is in a knot. Let go, open the hand of thought. As we continue our practice the flower of insight blossoms within, as do the flowers of compassion, tolerance and joy. All the way through zazen instructions you will notice the concept of relaxation (in one form of words or another) tHE CONCEPT IS SIMPLE. Your body knows how to heal. The challenge is achieving stillness; and that takes practice. May your heart be opened to the Present.

gassho,

satoday

[Zenmei]

Let me also shout that "learning" Zen is much like "learning" to make love (yes, a "Zen monk" said that ... although a married one ), be a 'performance artist' or a 'mom's home cooking' cook ...

In my spelunking through the archives here, I've heard you make this point several times, but I never really got it before. Or maybe I just never really believed you. Like many others here, I'm a programmer by trade, so I've trained my mind to want to fit everything into a nice neat sequence of steps. Thank you for showing me that not everything has to fit into a syllabus.
That was beautiful and somehow exactly what I needed to hear at this moment. Thank you.

Many bows,
Dudley
#sat today