searching origin of 'listening to incense' phrase in Mahayana Sutras

[Kotei]

Dear Sangha,

a friend from Jordan introduced me to burning Agarwood incense some time ago.
No need to repost the 'turning Japanese' essay, but years after that, I was delighted to learn, that Koh-do incense burning ceremony uses only rice-corn sized pieces of wood, which is, regarding sinking grade Agarwood, a real relief for the purse.

I was wondering about the term 'listening to incense', that is often used in this context.

Reading in 'The book of incense', I found, that this nice phrase's origin might be traced back to the Mahayana sutra.
They wrote:
"... the idea of listening to incense may be traced even further back to a section of the fourteen-volume Mahayana sutra of Buddhism. There, in a dialogue between the bodhisattva Monju (Manjushri) ... and Yuima-kitsu (a wealthy Indian Buddhist layman, also known for his wisdom and intellect), Yuma learns that in the Buddha's world everything is fragrant like incense, including the words of Buddha. Fragrance and incense are synonymous, and Buddha's words of teaching are incense. Therefore, bodhisattvas listen to Buddha's words, in the form of incense, instead of smelling them."

I've not thought about that before, but I very much like the idea, that lighting incense on the altar is not about smelling nice scents, but about listening to the Buddhas words.

Does someone happen to know, which part of the Mahayana sutra that may be?
Is there an online resource somewhere? (googled, but haven't found).

Gassho,
Kotei sattoday.

[Jundo]

Hi Kotei,

I believe this has to be referring, not to something called the "Mahayana Sutra", but to the Yuima Kyo (the VIMALAKIRTI NIRDESA SUTRA), one of the most popular Sutras in the Zen and other Mahayana schools. It features dialogues between Monju (Manjusri Bodhisattva) and Yuima (Vimalakirti). However, the closest there to what you describe is this between Buddha and Mahakasyapa, a different disciple of the Buddha, describing a prior conversation with Yuima.

Notice that the passage you quote does not actually say that the Sutra mentions "incense", but that it speaks of "fragrance" or "scents" which the author says is "like incense" ...

"Lord, I am indeed reluctant to go to the Licchavi Vimalakirti to inquire about his illness. Why? I remember one day, when I was in the street of the poor begging for my food, the Licchavi Vimalakirti came along and said to me, 'Reverend Mahakasyapa, to avoid the houses of the wealthy, and to favor the houses of the poor - this is partiality in benevolence. Reverend Mahakasyapa, you should dwell on the fact of the equality of things, and you should seek alms with consideration for all living beings at all times. You should beg your food in awareness of the ultimate nonexistence of food. You should seek alms for the sake of eliminating the materialism of others. When you enter a town, you should keep in mind its actual voidness, yet you should proceed through it in order to develop men and women. You should enter homes as if entering the family of the Buddha. You should accept alms by not taking anything. You should see form like a man blind from birth, hear sounds as if they were echoes, smell scents as if they were winds, experience tastes without any discrimination, touch tangibles in awareness of the ultimate lack of contact in gnosis, and know things with the consciousness of an illusory creature. That which is without intrinsic substance and without imparted substance does not burn. And what does not burn will not be extinguished.

There is also this, which is perhaps even closer to what you describe, which is Yuima speaking to a wide group of Bodhisattvas describing how things work in another Buddha Realm with another Buddha found there ...

Indeed, the entire gathering was satisfied by that food, and the food was not at all depleted. Having eaten that food, there arose in the bodies of those bodhisattvas, disciples, Sakras, Brahmas, Lokapalas, and other living beings, a bliss just like the bliss of the bodhisattvas of the universe Sarvasukhamandita. And from all the pores of their skin arose a perfume like that of the trees that grow in the universe Sarvagandhasugandha.

Then, the Licchavi Vimalakirti knowingly addressed those bodhisattvas who had come from the buddha-field of the Lord Tathagata Sugandhakuta: "Noble sirs, how does the Tathagata Sugandhakuta teach his Dharma?"

They replied, "The Tathagata does not teach the Dharma by means of sound and language. He disciplines the bodhisattvas only by means of perfumes. At the foot of each perfume-tree sits a bodhisattva, and the trees emit perfumes like this one. From the moment they smell that perfume, the bodhisattvas attain the concentration called 'source of all bodhisattva-virtues.' From the moment they attain that concentration, all the bodhisattva-virtues are produced in them."

http://www2.kenyon.edu/Depts/Religion/Fac/Adler/Reln260/Vimalakirti.htm

Sorry I cannot find anything more as you describe.

Gassho, J

SatToday

[Jishin]

"Oh Shariputra, all things are expressions of emptiness,
Not born, not destroyed, not stained, not pure;
Neither waxing nor waning.
Thus emptiness is not form; not sensation nor perception,
not formation nor consciousness.
No eye, ear, nose, tongue, body, mind;
No sight, sound, smell, taste, touch, nor object of mind" - Heart Sutra.

Sorry. My nose is not good enough to see the answer.

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Kotei]

Jundo,
thank you very much.
Well, maybe someone just wanted to add a little more 'meaning' to their ceremony...
I've heard the description 'perfume-tree' from the sutra translation used for Agarwood trees, already heavily infected with the parasitic fungus, that, together with the tree produces the scent. Agar wood being used for incense (Kyara).

I've also been reading another idea about the origin... They attribute it to the Japanese aristocrats, that found the original words coming from China too vulgar. :-)

Jishin,
I very much appreciate your answer in this and so many other threads.
You have this special talent, to pric my soap-bubbles, helping me back to reality.

Gassho,
Kotei sattoday

[Jishin]

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_