Not Very Good at Zazen

[Washin]

Thank you for the teaching, Jundo

Gassho
Washin
sat today

[robert]

Hello: this is slightly tangential to the OP but I was wondering if Rev. Jundo and/or others could help me clarify the distinction between shikantaza and what I do, which is basically a mix of breath meditation (focusing on the breath and counting breaths if needed in order to sustain focus) and noting/observing thoughts and sensations as they come and go.

In Dharma lingo this is basically samatha and vipasyana; I've heard some people say that shikantaza incorporates these, while others say it is something different. I understand that one attribute of shikantaza might be goal-lessness -- that is, there isn't an overt aim such as "calming the mind" or "achieving insight," whereas the terms samatha and vipasyana seem to imply some purpose. What I'm wondering about, though, is if there's any difference in terms of what we actually do on the cushion. If I sit this way, but without expectation that either calming or insight will occur, does it then become shikantaza?

Gassho,
Robert
//sat today

[Taiyo]

Hello, Robert:

I hope this will help. At least it helped me when I wasn't sure about the difference eiher:

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?5744-Vipassana-v-Zazen

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/archive/index.php/t-6580.html

Gassho,
Andoitz

Sat Today

[DADOOM]

Very good thread - my thanks.

Gassho,
DADOOM

SatToday

[Ongen]

Not Very Good at Zazen

Hi Ishin,

Currently something is wrong with my ankle which makes it almost impossible to stand on it, additionally I gained a tennis elbow a few weeks back so zazen is interesting at the moment.
What works well in case of pain is not to fight it or 'whine' about it in your mind, but to dive in. Be the pain. Sit with the pain without judging it. It's there no matter what you think of it or feel about it. Just be with it.
Then eventually, it becomes Ok, it becomes something in the same category as the wall or the birds outside. (unless the sitting itself causes the pain, in that case you might want to change your posture)

Makes the sitting easier!

Gassho
Ongen

Sat today
With pain