Fear and Zazen

[Kyab]

Hello Everyone,

I'm very new to Treeleaf, but have been practice some form of Buddhist meditation for 20 years, on and off (mostly on). Starting shikintaza a few weeks ago, I began to experience what I would interpret as "fear" as if "I" was no longer present. Knowing that my "I" is merely conventionally existent, I was expecting for that to happen sooner or later. Since the start of shikintaza recently fear has been a predominant emotion. I supposed that I should sit through it and accept it as another form of possible distraction, another mental construct. However, this is a very strong semi-hindrance and I need some guidance as to how to continue. Could it be "ego" fearing its' loss? I need some wise words regarding this, please. I am sure that I am on the right path.

Gassho,
AlanR

[Rich]

It could be the ego fearing its loss but who knows? Just accepting it and being with it transforms it.

SAT today

[Kokuu]

Hi Alan

Yes, I have experienced this at times. When my mind realises there is no self there it starts scrambling around for something solid to grab hold of. It is like being adrift in the middle of a large pool and scrabbling for the side.

Actually, it hasn't happened so much with shikantaza, which seems to be a gentler way of dropping off body and mind, but I experienced it with Tibetan meditations.

I think you are right just to sit with it. It is another of those things that happens in sitting and will arise and pass away, replaced by something else. I wouldn't try to attach any particular meaning or special significance to it.

Gassho
Kokuu
#sattoday

[Kyab]

Thank you Rich. I thought that was our instruction. Glad to have the feedback.

Gassho,
Alan

sat2day

[Kyab]

Thank you as well Kokuu. I was pretty sure others have experienced this too and I'll be sitting through...something else will come along...then something else...

Gassho,
Alan

sat2day

[Seido]

I think the fear of loss of self is the same fear of Death. You may never not fear death, but you have to try.

Gassho,
Seidō
SatToday

[Mp]

It could be the ego fearing its loss but who knows? Just accepting it and being with it transforms it.

SAT today

Wisely said Rich, thank you. =)

Gassho
Shingen

s@today

[Jundo]

Hi Alan,

I agree with what the folks have said. The little "self" may sometimes find it scary to be taken out of the driver's seat. Primarily it should be a joyous, peaceful and empowering experience to become less dependent on the "me me me" of the self's demands, and to experience the Wholeness and Harmony when the hard borders between the subjective "me myself and i" and the "not me rest of the world" soften or even sometimes drop away.

However, for some people more than others (maybe everybody sometimes) there can be a "self created" fear of "losing myself", a self delusion. It is very much like the fear of roller coasters or airplane turbulence that, mentally, may cause us to sweat and panic when getting on the ride or plane even though mentally we know it is quite safe. In my own roller coaster riding and flying, I have found that "Zazening" both experiences ... literally "going with the flow" and allowing ... allows the fear to loosen or release. All I can say is that Shikantaza should be a lot gentler, smoother, pleasant and fearless than any roller coaster ... a picnic in the park in which oneself, the mountains, trees, ants and the whole wide universe are one.

In our way, one -does not- drop into some nihilistic hole where the self is lost like a drowning man and nothing remains. Saying that life has aspects of being like a dream -does not- mean nothing is real. Snap out of it! If anything, one realizes the wonderfully whole and affirming nature of life and oneself as affirmed. Life is a beautiful dream, so row row row your boat!

Just sit with life in this way, on and off the cushion.

Also, try to recall at such times when fear arises (on or "off the cushion") that much of it is your "mind theatre" making a show. Practice mindful awareness of the mind's tricks. Try to recall, when feeling fear, that "This panic is just a passing thought and emotion created by the mind, just the story I now write for myself, the dream I choose to dream. I know it does not have to be that way, and the world can be experienced from countless different perspectives. I can change how I think, I can drop so many of those ideas as self-created fantasies." Briefly remind yourself of this fact, then return to "Just Sitting." Some of our fears in life may be justified (hey, hungry tigers chasing you in the jungle would be scary!), but so many of our fears in life are just "what ifs" and "worst case scenarious" running around in our heads. Like the "boogeyman under the bed", the scary is "self-created" and disappears when we let go ... "poof, the boogeyman is gone!" ...



In traditional Buddhist terms, we speak of "Mara" which may visit us in one form or another during Zazen: moments of intense passing sadness, grief, anxiety, grinding boredom or worst of all, fear, that may try to persuade us to quit, do something more pleasing or distracting to that "little self". We just sit with them all, letting them pass as temporary phenomena of the mental "mind theatre." Just let em be, let em drift through and away.

Typically, our Zazen will let us "just sit" with the fear. And just sitting with that .... dropping resistance to the fear as well as to everything else ... can usually (not always) help that fear and anxiety lose some of its fire (because sitting resisting the fear has the effect of pouring more fuel on the fear, while sitting while not resisting the fear turns the fear into something much smaller!) A funny thing that can result is an experience of feeling fear ... while being totally free of any fear ... ALL AT ONCE. Fear and fearlessness, as one. This is a great realization! Most folks who have been on this Zen road for awhile will have an understanding of what I mean by that.

If you need, follow the breath for awhile, focused on the in and out of the breath as a gentle anchor, until the fear looses its grip on you a bit.

This is a good place to mention "Makyo" (Mara's cousin) ...

In Zen Practice, we have to be careful of certain games the mind will play during Zazen once in awhile ... including unusual visual and auditory sensations, brief periods of paranoia or panic, memories arising from deep down in our subconscious. We are not used to the stillness and quiet of Zazen, and it lets certain memories, emotions, fears and like psychological states rise to the surface ... or allows some things (spots in our eyes that are always there even though not usually noticed, background sounds) to be noticed that are usually blocked out by all the noise and busyness in our heads, senses and around us.

The usual guidance on such events ... Observe, allow, let it go. If such events do not repeat so often, I would not worry.


However, that being said, some people are more sensitive to such things than others, and some people can even be psychological fragile. CAUTION CAUTION! There is a scholar researching some negative effects of meditation called the "Dark Night" project. However, it is my general belief that most truly extreme and powerful negative psychological and emotional states would arise from highly concentrated, intense, very long or focused forms of meditation seeking to give rise to unusual and radically altered mind states. The Shikantaza we sit is rather relaxed, "ordinary mind", low-intensity in style, so I believe that triggering truly extreme negative mental states is unlikely in the way we sit. However, one still needs to be careful for some particularly fragile or sensitive individuals.

http://magazine.good.is/articles/when-meditation-is-bad-for-you

For now, sit through it. If you need, break off Zazen if the fear becomes too bad. Try again later. However, if it gets very bad or causes more sever symptoms or effects in you, we may have to reassess about meditation in general. Zazen is not for everybody, and for some psychologically fragile individuals, it should be avoided in extreme cases. If these symptoms persist or become too intense, write me again and we can reassess.

You may also wish to look at this old posting on "panic attacks" as well.

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?13635-Does-Shikantaza-help-with-anxiety&p=157513&viewfull=1#post157513

In the meantime, pay that "boogeymen under the bed" no nevermind!

Gassho, Jundo

SatToday

PS - By the way, we have two "AlanRs" now ... the other a long time member here ...

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/member.php?12777-alan-r

In Buddhism, he is you and you are him (and anyway, what "you"? ). Still, we need to tell you two apart. Might I trouble you to post a human face avatar photo so we can put a face to the name and put a human touch on things, and to introduce yourself a bit here ... Thank you.

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?14422-Greetings-by-new-folks-%28June%29

[Toun]

Thank you Jundo for your helpful answer! It really puts so many things into perspective when approaching the practice of meditation. In a way, I guess we all have to deal with our “bogeyman” or “Mara” under the bed, which might appear in the form of different emotions, thoughts and fears.

Becoming the “observer” instead of the “engager” has helped me deal with the “I” and all of the emotional baggage and doubts that might pop up. Likewise studying and reading up on zazen has prepared me for what I might expect as I practice.

This reminds me of taking swimming lessons as a young boy at McCarren Park in Brooklyn. After spending months learning to breathe, float, kick and move my arms and feeling really good about it, I was told that the final test would take place in the 16 ft. deep pool. I was terrified that I would sink to the bottom! My instructor looked at me, smiled and told me to forget about the pool being that deep. Instead, he told me to just relax and float on the water, remembering what I was taught. Even though my mind tried to convince me otherwise I somehow overcame the fear of sinking to the bottom. Yes… back then the fear of the pool was Mara in disguise, but I realized that water is just water and to float means to just float.

Maybe our first step should be learning to “just float” while avoiding the deep end of the pool. It probably all comes down to a learning process with tiny steps leading slowly to larger ones.

Just my personal experience from someone stumbling along the path.

And...welcome to Treeleaf Alan and the best of wishes.

Gassho
Mike
Sat2 day

[Kyab]

Thank you Rev. Jundo for that very comprehensive and inspiring response. It's useful to have the info provided. I guess we are are "fragile" to some extent, but for me, I plan to just do zazen with what is.

Alan
sat2day