Where do you come back to?

[dharmasponge]

Hi everyone,

Given we're supposed to have a formless practice without ant one specific focus - when sitting and you become aware that your thoughts have wandered or you have become embroiled in a narrative:

1. Where have you wandered from?
2. Where do you return to?

Thanks...


Sat_today

[TyZa]

If my mind was carried away on a wave of thoughts I will gently tell myself "thinking" and return to the present as is. If the thoughts are just like small waves rising and falling then I just observe them until they eventually dissipate.

Regarding 1) Where have you wandered from? I would say I've only wandered if I don't realize I was carried away from the present as is by a surge of thoughts. If I'm just observing the rising and falling of thoughts as is, then I don't think I've wandered at all. 2) Where do you return to? If I've truly wandered, then the as is that is the present I would probably say. But that's just what I've observed so far and might not be what others have observed.

Gassho,
Tyler

SatToday

[Jishin]

Where do you come back to?

It depends Toni. Who is asking? Is it Toni or is it who? If it's Toni, I would say you have wandered and come back to Toni. If its who, I would say who is wandered and returned. Who is who?

It's still dark outside and very quiet. Will let the dogs out and sit for 30 minutes, eat a bowl of serial, exercise for 15 minutes, shower and go to work. It's Monday morning and I have jet lag from the weekend but it's not so bad once I immerse myself in work. Before I know it I will be home again in my pajamas. My favorite thing to wear. Got to get going!

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[dharmasponge]

It depends Toni. Who is asking? Is it Toni or is it who? If it's Toni, I would say you have wandered and come back to Toni. If its who, I would say who is wandered and returned. Who is who?

It's still dark outside and very quiet. Will let the dogs out and sit for 30 minutes, eat a bowl of serial, exercise for 15 minutes, shower and go to work. It's Monday morning and I have jet lag from the weekend but it's not so bad once I immerse myself in work. Before I know it I will be home again in my pajamas. My favorite thing to wear. Got to get going!

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

Cor Jishin....you dont half go on at times 😃😃😃

...thanks _/|\_

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[Kokuu]

Hi Tony

Yes, there is nowhere to wander and noone doing the wandering. And yet...

When I 'come back' I return to bodily sensations and then let my awareness open up to include sounds, smells, thoughts and everything else, without being attached to any of them. I see wandering off as when I have lost sight of everything but a particular train of thought. Returning is opening up to the totality of experience.

That is just how I see it, though.

Deep bows
Kokuu
#sattoday

[Eishuu]

It's a good question. I'd say 'I' come back to the senses, primarily to vision and the sense of my body sitting. Sometimes particularly the sense of my body sitting feels like an anchor...the sense of my body's presence is something that I'm noticing more and more in Zazen and I'm not sure I noticed before. I can get lost in whole worlds of thought that my mind can dream up in record time, literally a split second...it really is amazing.

Gassho
Lucy
Sat today

[Geika]

I have wandered from the straight spine, breath, the floor, the sounds, the wall; stuck in some fantasy of running some kind of business that will save me from my failures. Realizing I can't do a damn thing. I understand that there is no real difference between the two frontiers.

Gassho,
Sat today

[Jinyo]

'I see wandering off as when I have lost sight of everything but a particular train of thought. Returning is opening up to the totality of experience. '


Thanks Kokuu - I feel that is very succinct.

Gassho

Jinyo

sat today - with much wandering off

[Kyonin]

Hi Tony,

I'm not sure if I understand your questions. When I get distracted and get attached to thought I usually feel how my thumbs start to point upwards. Some thoughts make some muscles tense!

That's when I notice I need to get back to watching, not participating. And say to myself "thinking"... but sometimes I forget the words and just get back to contemplate. I'm weird, I know


Gassho,

Kyonin

Hi everyone,

Given we're supposed to have a formless practice without ant one specific focus - when sitting and you become aware that your thoughts have wandered or you have become embroiled in a narrative:

1. Where have you wandered from?
2. Where do you return to?

Thanks...


Sat_today

[dharmasponge]

Many of these sound like 'methods' Returning to the senses (Vipassana)....noting 'thinking' (Mahasi technique). Awaremess of the body sitting (Sheng Yens 'Silent Illumination').

All good though. I guess we all need a method. Even if its to facilitate having no method.

Interesting....


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[Byokan]

Given we're supposed to have a formless practice without ant one specific focus - when sitting and you become aware that your thoughts have wandered or you have become embroiled in a narrative:

1. Where have you wandered from?
2. Where do you return to?

Hi Tony,

I can’t say much about what we’re “supposed to” do, or how our practice ought to be, but I can tell you how I experience this. I guess I don’t really think of it so much as coming and going, to and from, anywhere. It's not like, thought-land is bad, and no-thought-land is good. Sometimes when I'm sitting, the mind strolls down a path, following a train of thought or a fantasy or a memory. I notice the thinking, but it is no more or less significant than noticing that the wind has started to blow outside, or that I’m feeling happy or sad, or that the cat has meowed, or that I have an itch or a pain. I don't necessarily need to fix or to "correct" what's going on. Things are happening. I don’t expend any effort to “return” to some preferable state of being. I’m here, everything is here, everything is doing what it does, and this is how it is.

Oh, well, it’s kind of like what this guy said:

Form is no other than emptiness, emptiness no other than form.
Form is precisely emptiness, emptiness precisely form.
Sensations, perceptions, formations and consciousness are also like this.

There’s no need to struggle with dualities of thinking or not thinking. No need to stand guard. No need to judge and pick and choose and fiddle. No need to assign higher or lower values to what is. Don’t try to be here if you are there. Just sit. Leave yourself alone for a while, let yourself rest in what is, as you are, as you have always been. What is, is. It is here and it is you. Relax back into it. Expanding and contracting with the breath, with the pulsing of blood, with the coming and going and arising and falling and living and dying of everything.

Life goes on within you and without you. Let it be.

Maybe I'm all wrong and Teacher will hit me with a stick. This is how I do zazen. I don't worry much about thoughts.

Why do I do this sitting, anyway? Do I win a fabulous prize if I do it right? Nope. It’s practice. It’s practicing, training, so that when I get off the cushion, I can experience the world with clearer perception and equanimity, and allow right action to arise naturally and freely, without being so distracted and caught up by my thoughts, sensations, preferences, and desires.

To my thinking (today at least), it’s not about conquering your mind or getting to some higher spiritual state. It’s about living this human life today, doing the best you can with what is here, now. That’s our job.

Hope something there made sense. I also really like what everyone else said here.

Gassho
Byōkan
sat today

[dharmasponge]

That's lovely Byokan..particularly "...don't try to be here if you're there..." 😀

Thanks....

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[Kaishin]

What is it that opens the hand of thought?

[Kotei]

What is it that opens the hand of thought?

The tendency to return to the natural state, when no force is applied?

[Jishin]

What is it that opens the hand of thought?

I would say that What opens the hand of thought and the hand of thought is the hand of thought.

I have a little downtime at work and am bored so I thought I jump in again in the thread and share my infallible wisdom. If I had better self control I would keep my mouth shut.

Gassho, Jishin, ST