Exquisite pain....

[dharmasponge]

Hi everyone,

Bit of an odd question I guess. But I had a rather odd experience when sitting with my group last night. After buying a new Zafu and taking time getting used to it I was in some pain after round 30 mins. I did what I usually do and acknowledged it and continued sitting. But then oddly I noticed that as the clock ticked the pain became kind of sweet and almost pleasurable.

Now don't get me wrong, whatever floats ya boat I say...but I'm not usually into any sort of masochistic activities But the shift from:

Pain + Suffering = need to change

To...

Pain....but suffering is now optional

...very odd. Whats that all about?

#sat_today

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[Myosha]

Hello,

Throw it all away.

Just sit.


Gassho
Myosha sat today

[Jundo]

Endorphins. Runners know them well. No great mystery.

Just one moment of sitting, nothing special, The Great Mystery whether mysterios or not, Sacred as all moment, move on.

May you be free of Dukkha, pain or no pain; may you know Joy, joy or no joy.

Gassho, J

SatToday

[Jishin]

Hi dharmasponge. Good to hear from you.

It sounds like just pain to me.

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Mp]

Helloo Dharmasponge,

Pain, what pain? Oh that pain! Our minds are amazing and do wonderful things ... either way, just sit. =)

Gassho
Shingen

s@today

[Jundo]

By the way, pain during Zazen is not a bad thing. Neither is it a good thing. It is just pain.

The absence of pain during Zazen is not a good or bad thing. It is just the absence of pain.

We do not sit to intentionally have pain, and it is good to sit in a balanced and comfortable posture that reduces pain. However, when that fails, pain is just pain.

It is actually good and part of the Training to have pain sometimes during Zazen. The reason is that life is sometimes painful. We can learn that, in life too, pain is just pain.

Buddhist "Suffering" (Dukkha) is not about pain or no pain. Dukkha is about resistance to how things are. If there is pain, yet refusal to accept the pain, that is Dukkha. If there is no pain, but refusal of that condition too, that would be Dukkha. So it is with any gap between how life is, and how we might wish it would be other than how it is.

So, when in pain ... be in pain. Pain is just the body. Even the aging and sick Buddha felt pain.

Then the Blessed One, having spent most of the night instructing, urging, rousing, & encouraging the Kapilavatthu Sakyans with a Dhamma talk, said to Ven. Ananda:

Ananda, speak to the Kapilavatthu Sakyans about the person who follows the practice for one in training. My back aches. I will rest it.

As you say, lord, Ven. Ananda responded. Then the Blessed One, having arranged his outer robe folded in four, lay down on his right side in the lion's sleeping posture.
http://www.buddha-vacana.org/sutta/majjhima/mn053.html

All things in moderation. Our way is not about pursuing intentional pain nor requiring the absence of pain. Our way is sitting as what is.

Gassho, J

SatToday

[dharmasponge]

Ooer!

I am still sitting! I had never actually experienced anything quite like a paradigm shift in a perception like that before. I thought it interesting.

Why are Zennies so averse to the potential for the unusual.

"Throw it all away"
"No great Mystery"

Why not throw it ALL away then including Zazen and your Zafu.....?

[Jundo]

Ooer!

I am still sitting! I had never actually experienced anything quite like a paradigm shift in a perception like that before. I thought it interesting.

Why are Zennies so averse to the potential for the unusual.

"Throw it all away"
"No great Mystery"

Why not throw it ALL away then including Zazen and your Zafu.....?

Oh, we are absolutely not adverse to the unusual. It is simply that we also honor the wonder of the usual. The "no great mystery" of ordinary daily life events is the Great Mystery of the miracle of this world, not two. Folks jump after the "unusual", and fail to see how "unusual" it is to be living the "usual."

"Throw it all away" means simply "take it all as it comes" The pivot point for doing so is the Zafu. Rising from the Zafu, the pivot point becomes every step.

Gassho, J

SatToday

[Jishin]

Why not throw it ALL away then including Zazen and your Zafu.....?

This is a great question.

Gassho, Jishin, ST

[dharmasponge]

Any great answers Jishin?

Jundo, Do you recall my struggles with Zazen?

I dont struggle anymore. I just sit and all is well...or not. But I sit nonetheless.

But sometimes what I hear is nilhistic. What happens on the Zafu is remarkable at times and it would feel spiritually arrogant to suggest its not important, to be brushed aside or mere makyo.

When I sit and feel like a wave in the ocean its not attachment I feel, that would by implication be impossible. But its far from superficial.

_/|\_

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[Jundo]

But sometimes what I hear is nilhistic. What happens on the Zafu is remarkable at times and it would feel spiritually arrogant to suggest its not important, to be brushed aside or mere makyo.

When I sit and feel like a wave in the ocean its not attachment I feel, that would by implication be impossible. But its far from superficial.

I know such times are remarkable. They are wonderful and important. But it is all remarkable. important and wonderful too, every moment.

Gassho, J

SatToday

[Byokan]

"Throw it all away" means simply "take it all as it comes" The pivot point for doing so is the Zafu. Rising from the Zafu, the pivot point becomes every step.

Wowza! Thank you Jundo.

Gassho
Byōkan
sat today

[Jishin]

Any great answers Jishin?

Yes.

Gassho, Jishin, ST

[dharmasponge]

Yes.

Gassho, Jishin, ST

Nah....!

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[Jishin]

Nah....!

You got it!

Gassho, Jishin, ST