Bing Bing

[will]

Re: Bing Bing

Will, Darling, you'll have to excuse me, I'm really no expert on Buddhist custom: at what point exactly did we get married

(and does Venerable TNH approve of "this sort of thing"!!!?)

:lol:

[Skye]

Re: Bing Bing

Yes, Will, all admirable, admirable, admirable like so many systems of morality and conduct in the world.

Its not the gist of the real matter though. I personally find more resonance in Dogen's advice and commentary on the simple line 'do not commit wrongs'.

Dogen brings it down to the level of our own conduct in the present moment, to the little 'pivot' of time and experience where we decide to act one way or the other.

I have books and books of fine ideals like those outlined above on my shelf but, in the real moment, I can only do what seems right as dictated by the real situation and my current perception of it, including my perception of myself at that moment.

This reminds me of last week when I was studying for my motorcycle learner's permit test. I got my driver's license when I was 16 (hint: in the 80s) and of course that was the last time I studied any of these government "how to drive" books. What struck me is that while it was all good advice, if you actually used the thought process on any of the subjects they present such as "collision avoidance" it would be apocalypse on the highways as everyone smashed into each other lost in though. It's great advice, but only so far as to make "mental models" or run through hypothetical scenarios, to hone your instincts for when the time actually comes to make that split-second decision.

It's good advice, but it takes more than book knowledge. You have to get out and play in traffic.

At the same time, you have to have some training so you don't get splattered before you can learn what it's really about.

I'd hazard to say its not just driving that's like that.

Skye

[Louise]

Re: Bing Bing

I've had another look at For a Future To Be Possible by TNH, and specifically at Precept 14 (I think the 14 Precepts are for ordained people - there are 5 for laypeople - In this book the sex Precept is number 3). TNH actually discusses the reason why 'long term commitment' is included in there. He also talks about loveless marriage and how that doesn't really meet the criteria of the Precept.

In my understanding the Buddha didn't teach precepts at all until some untoward event threatened the sangha. For example, after nuns were admitted and told to go out and serve people, one bhikuni was doing just this when she came across a difficult situation and was nearly raped. Once she was safely back in the sangha the Buddha heard about the incident and made a rule about bhikunis always having to travel in pairs or groups - to protect themselves and the sangha. I have always believed that the Precepts were formulated in the light of the experience of the sangha and that the 5 Precepts for laypeople were those that the Buddha thought were most conducive to lay life and practice. They are guides to help us, perhaps in our weaker moments to avoid causing harm and not sticks to beat ourselves with.

That's why nuns have even more Precepts. In Buddha's day (and until recently, in some places this is still the case) women were thought of as the property of their father until they married and became the property of their husband. When Buddha allowed women into the sangha he was doing something very radical and potentially very dangerous, which is why some of the precepts for nuns seem so draconian and nowadays quite ridiculous (especially the one which says that a nun of however many years of practice and whatever her attainments is always to give precedence to a monk even if he is a novice!). I think that this is something that 'Western' Buddhism can help address.

Gassho Louise