Good and bad

[John Mac]

Greetings Dear Friends,

I have a simple question, which, admittedly, has been bothering me for a while now. Often, when sitting, I worry that I am not ' doing it right' or that it's ' not any good' and equally sometimes I think ' I'm doing it right' and ' that was a good session'. Recently, I have begun to think that there isn't a good or bad, it's all just sitting, just as it is. I am struggling, somewhat, to accept this view, as my mind won't give up the idea of good and bad even though somewhere deeper is telling me that just sitting, irrespective of what the mind tells me, is perfect, just as it is. I would be grateful if anyone would comment.

Gassho,
John

[Jundo]

Hello John,

This is my little essay on this topic. Would you look at it and see if it helps?

Right Zazen and Wrong Zazen

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?7573-SPECIAL-REPOST-Right-Zazen-and-Wrong-Zazen

There is no "good vs. bad" sitting, and yet there is, and yet "good sitting" involves sitting without thinking "good and bad."

Gassho, Jundo

SatToday

[Jishin]

I have a simple question

What is your simple question?

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Mp]

Hello John,

When you sit, just sit ... whether good or bad, just sit. =)

Gassho
Shingen

s@today

[John Mac]

Hello all,

Thank you for the replies. Jundo, I will have to read your essay several times, but so far I have got the gist. The goalless goal....I hope that I am right in thinking that this quandary of good and bad is at the essence of practice?
Jishin- point taken!

Gassho,
John

[Jakuden]

I asked a question once on the thread about setting timers for Zazen; for awhile, I was frequently resetting the timer for more time, because I felt I hadn't done "good" Zazen. Don't know what ideal state I was looking for, but apparently I felt sometimes that I didn't achieve it! With help from Jundo and everyone else here, I have come to accept whatever comes, whether it be blue sky and smooth sailing, or lots of clouds and turbulent waves. When the bell rings, I get up without judging.

Whatever happens during Zazen is just scenery. It does seem like sitting under certain conditions, in perfect quiet during hours of sesshin at a Monastery, for example, can lead to a lot of "blue sky" smooth sailing... whereas Zazen before or after a busy day, or in a noisier environment, results in a more active mind filled with planning and judgements... but really the blue sky is always there behind the clouds, regardless of what the mind is doing.

It sounds like you are already there, just having a little issue with your "small self" that wants to label and judge everything. I don't know if that ever really ends! I think just the awareness of this tendency is a big help, though, because then we can take this awareness out beyond Zazen and see how our small self tries to judge and label everything all the time. The more we learn to let go of judging our Zazen, perhaps the more we learn to at least think twice about all the other judgements we make also.

Gassho,
Jakuden
SatToday

[Joyo]

I asked a question once on the thread about setting timers for Zazen; for awhile, I was frequently resetting the timer for more time, because I felt I hadn't done "good" Zazen. Don't know what ideal state I was looking for, but apparently I felt sometimes that I didn't achieve it!
Gassho,
Jakuden
SatToday

You too, hey. Sometimes I now make myself sit for only a few min. because it is good for the ego. We always want to practice, practice, practice to get better. That way of thinking doesn't work with zazen.

Gassho,
Joyo
sat today

[John Mac]

Hello all,

Thanks Jakuden for the reply, makes perfect sense, the small self is still in action -worrying all the time. Since I have begun practice in earnest, I have become much more aware of the small self in action in my daily life which has led to a much more 'spacious' life.

Gassho,
John

[Toun]

I guess we have the tendency to approach the Zafu with our opinions, expectations, judgments, anxieties and worries. These things can also become amplified by our sense world.

Yet once we sit, we can observe the mind and its complicated nature and notice how it fabricates all kinds of thoughts, feelings, fears and emotions. We learn to recognize and acknowledge all of these moments for what they simply are, and then let go. The more we commit ourselves to the act of sitting the more we can become explorers of our own existence and see the true nature of the mind...a crystal clear blue sky.

My only advice is to simply sit and after considering all things... just continue to sit.

Kind regards
Gassho
Mike

Sat2day

[Jundo]

Mountains, grasses, stones and walls do not sit thinking "good or bad." They never ask: Am I an "adequate" mountain or am I "walling" right? Nor do they ask where they begin and the world ends.

Only people do that.

Sit as a mountain sitting, sit like a wall.

Master Dogen from Fukanzazengi ...

Put aside all involvements and suspend all affairs. Don’t think about “good” or “bad”. Don’t judge true or false. Your mind, intellect, and consciousness are spinning around – let them have rest. Give up measuring with thoughts, ideas, and views. Have no designs on becoming a Buddha. ... Sitting immovably in the mountain-still state, "Think about this concrete state beyond thinking." "How can the state beyond thinking be thought
about?" "It is different from thinking." This is just the pivot of Zazen.

Our way is to think non thinking, beyond "good and bad" yet alive in a world of good and bad.

Gassho, J

SatToday

[John Mac]

Good Evening friends, again, thank you all for the replies, all of which are appreciated. Jundo, ' am I an adequate mountain'....that nails it for me. I begin to see.

Gassho,
John
Sat today

[Byokan]

Yes, oh beautiful, thank you all for sharing this.

And, can you see... the blue sky... it’s not only behind the clouds. It comes forward AS the clouds.

There’s nothing hiding behind something else. It’s all right here. Look, look! And stop looking. Everything you’re looking for is all the stuff that seems to be in the way. Look again!

Sorry for spouting nonsense!

Gassho
Byōkan
sat today

[Jundo]

And, can you see... the blue sky... it’s not only behind the clouds. It comes forward AS the clouds.

There’s nothing hiding behind something else. It’s all right here. Look, look! And stop looking. Everything you’re looking for is all the stuff that seems to be in the way. Look again!

Yes.

Then those clouds and hindering stuff are yet are not just as before.

Gassho, J

SatTidat

[Rich]

Giving up the mind is not that easy so maybe just watching it from a distance will do for now.

Sat today

[Oheso]

Everything you’re looking for is all the stuff that seems to be in the way.

O

who sat today