Threatened.

[Kairu]

My ex-wife and I we're at a garage sale some time ago and stumbled upon a DVD shelf. Among those videos was an old Chinese Kung Fu called "Arhats in Fury". I neglected to watch it until today.

Even though it was a very corny film (by American cultural standards) it still sent out a very powerful message. What are Buddhists to do when pinned in a corner? In the movie a man must fight to protect a temple from being destroyed by an army.

So my question is this; what would you do if you we're physically threatened for being a Buddhist with nowhere to go?

Would you fight? Would you allow yourself to be killed? Would you hide your practice until being found out? Or would you convert?

Kyle,
Sat2day.

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[Jakuden]

Violence in the name of Buddhism would just be another attachment to a concept. I do not feel the need to defend my beliefs in any way, or force them on others. A temple is just a temple, so I would not feel the need to defend that with my life either. (Unless there were lives inside it). I probably would fight to defend my life and that of others if I had to, but if "hiding" practice would save my life and others, that would be the logical thing to do--practice can be done in the mind too.

Gassho,
Jakuden
SatToday

[Kaishin]

I like what Jakuden said.

And... Don't be a Buddhist (or any -ist)--no problems

An old story, can't remember source. Monks of two temples were always fighting, each claiming to have the better, "correct" practice. Things escalated so badly that the monks of one temple went to their abbot. "Master! The monks and even the abbot at the other temple say our Buddhism is wrong, that our practice is misguided and we are a bunch of fools! We can't stand for this, what do you think?" The Master thought for a moment. "Hmmm," he said, "maybe they are right!"

Something like that.

That's what I say now. If I were really in that situation, who knows... but I try to hold this practice deeply but loosely at the same time, lest it becomes another problem.

[Kyonin]

Hi Kairu,

As both a priest and a martial artist I dare to say that fighting over politics, sports, objects, temples, religions or opinions is not worth the effort, since there is no point in winning.

The mere idea of "winning" involves the suffering of others and in the long run, of one self.

In my deluded mind no-fight is always the way... unless the life of others or mine are in danger.

When I was in my 20's, two young fellows tried to mug me in plain street, threatening me with knives. Those were my good years in Karate-Do. I had to defend myself and I did until they were not a threat anymore. I am not proud of that, but I had to show them that the harder they hit, the harder the lesson. It only took a few seconds, that felt like an eternity. Had to sit zazen for weeks after that one. Hope they are fine and with better lives now.

So peace, kindness and running away from physical violence is always the way. But if life depends on it, I think we can defend ourselves until we are safe again, but nothing more than that.

But then again, I could be wrong.

Gassho,

Kyonin
#SatToday

[Jishin]

I would fight back. Being or not being Buddhist would not come into question if pinned in a corner. It's just instinct. I would practice by not practicing.

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Heisoku]

I have found that if you are generally relaxed and chilled then you don't attract negative people, but when your attitude exudes anger then that's what you get! I have never been attacked for being a Buddhist because I don't go around proclaiming anything and I am naturally bald! Maybe I look too flaky to be bothered with, but carrying zazen into daily life is my martial non-art!
Gassho Heisoku
Sat today.


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[Myosha]

Hello,

Used to travel the last car on th A.M.NYC subway train. Can't kill, only cause death. Never enjoy it.

Gassho
Myosha sat today

[Geika]

I have wondered the same thing. I think my usual conclusion is that I would rather live than die defending something as plain and simple as the Dharma. If I am dead, how can I continue the vows, secretly or not? Also, at the end of all the speculation I realize it is so useless to speculate. It is our instincts we have to trust when a situation like that comes up. Too many mind.

Gassho, sat today

[Getchi]

Talk.

Every time I've been accosted I've successfully steered the situation to a place where more options then just violence where available. You want money? I'm sorry to hear its so bad ywoue need too jump me, take 20 bucks. You want my jacket? I'll trade it for your hat. Drunken fights? I can get you a taxi. These aryeu all things I've had to do.

Second option is always run. Cardio is your best defence.

My thoughts always go out to those who are violently treated, it usually comes from a place of fear and desperation. Emotions that every human understands.

But in the above impossible situation, the first thing is don't make it worse for those who need me. Second is to not cling to my conception of who or what I am and third is to provide a framework for dialogue.

All I know is my practice is truly Good for nothing.


Gassho
Geoff.

SatToday.

[Washin]

Good question. I don't know for sure. We tend to picture different scenarios in our heads as to what we would do in similar cases (some lofty stuff maybe) until we get into the real ones and spontaniety of the situation dictates our actions.
But what I'd do for sure is I'd have tried to avoid violence at all costs (yes, run away option works in most cases) unless there is no way out and your life our the lives of others are at threat. Then you must defend...

Gassho
Washin
sat-today

[Mp]

Good questions Kyle ... for me, I feel it is important to have peace in one's heart and to use non-violence where ever possible. However, I also believe that one should not victimize themselves by making themselves a victim. If one has no other choice but to defend themselves, then defend yourself or the life and safety of others - again, try to do it with a still and peaceful heart.

Gassho
Shingen

s@today

[Rich]

Am still a pretty good runner. Just telling someone I'm a hockey player stops them in their tracks 😊😉 -)

SAT today

[Jishin]

I just take my shirt off, flex my trapezoid muscles and give them a snarl. That usually does it.

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Kairu]

Thank you for your replies. It was less of an inquiry based on ignorance, but more of a gathering of personal experiences or opinions. As always, thank you for your practice.

Kyle,
Sat today.

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[kazashimo]

I wear really thick bottle end glasses, so violence doesn't really come in to my life, most people take pity on me. Failing that, if I do get threatened, I don't usually get to know about it as I can't see who's threatening me.... ignorance is bliss (sometimes).

On a serious note, if your life or someone else's it at stake, I would defend. It just may be my karma that has lead me in to that position in the first place and I have some karma to fulfil or not, whatever the case may be.
This reminds me about a conversation I had a while back now with a Psychologist (she was a patient of mine) and she asked my opinion about a couple of guys who where on death row in America (remembering I'm in the UK, where there is no death penalty and life means 14 yrs and you could half that with good behaviour). Any way these two guys where on death row for murder and it was a clear cut case, they had been seen killing the guy. I said that I don't believe in killing or taking life and was totally against this punishment.
Her reply went along the lines of - that it may be required as a fulfilment of their karma and if the sentence was not passed than it could be considered that their karma had been denied and that this will/may have to be fulfilled at a later stage in their life or future reincarnation.
Now I know, karma is a massive subject and one not be spoken about lightly as I think it is really unfathomable.
But I guess she made a valid point.

I learnt two lessons from this conversation (it went on a long time),
don't go talking 'deep' with Psychologists, it'll end up in tears (mine)
and
especially not about karma

Gassho
Kazashimo ~~sat today~~