Zazen with Chronic Illness

[Meian]

Hello all,

I have had to adapt my sitting to accommodate chronic illness that involves pain with ordinary activities. So, "sitting" in the traditional sense of the activity is not usually possible for me for more than a minute or so at most. Then I need to move or change position to "not think" and not be distracted by pain or sudden jerky movements.

So I still "sit", but in a variety of postures and positions, and for shorter contiguous stretches of time. That being said, zazen has been improving my concentration in general, and is helping to calm a previous state of near constant worry and anxiety. It allows me to sleep better also (a miracle in itself).

Just wondering if anyone else here has a similar situation, and how you handle it. If you care to share, I am aleays open for suggestions and advice.

Gassho,
Kim
#sattoday

[Jishin]

Hi Kim,

Your way is the only right way. Everybody else does it wrong.

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Mp]

Hello Kim,

Well, it actually sounds like you are doing a great job already. Finding a balance within your sitting is key I feel ... we don't want to torture ourselves, but at the same time, we don't want to be constantly moving, so this balance is unique to each person. If for health reasons you need to adjust, adjust, then come back to just sitting. If you find that posture uncomfortable just breathe for a moment, be right there and try not to force anything - then adjust. Sometimes our minds have a tendency to respond in conditional ways (i.e. your body is starting to hurt, therefore the mind automatically responds to that stimuli) and we just respond to those conditional ways. When sitting and the discomfort is there, take the opportunity to recondition the mind so to speak. Don't over do it, don't push yourself to hard, but allow yourself a little extra practice time. Overtime you will notice you are able to be with whatever arises.

Again, play around with different postures, feel how each really feels, and then be right there. But please do take it easy as there is no need to cause additional pain or discomfort. =)

Gassho
Shingen

#sattoday

[Jundo]

Hi Kim,

I am sorry for your discomfort.

One may move when one needs, change positions and be creative to find what brings some comfort.

Here are a couple of recent threads that may be of some interest ...

Norman Fischer - When Illness Is Our Path

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?14109-Norman-Fischer-When-Illness-Is-Our-Path

Sitting with lower back pain

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?14014-Sitting-with-lower-back-yain

A recent discussion among some Zen teachers came to the conclusion that Zazen itself might not reduce pain very much (and even the Zen teachers find it hard to sit frequently in the face of migraines, severe back pain and the like). However, they all said that Zazen helps one accept and allow the situation, which is half the battle.

Gassho, Jundo

SatToday

[Eishuu]

Hiya,
Sorry you are having to deal with chronic illness and pain. I also can't sit for very long because of pain. I tend to listen to my body and sit upright when I am able. I also 'sit' lying down and use the ceiling instead of the floor or wall to rest my eyes. I prefer to sit upright but am getting used to lying down zazen. For me it's important to distinguish between pain which is my body really needing to change position and pain that I can just be with without making myself worse physically. If it's a pain that I can just be with without hurting myself then I just sit with that as part of the zazen. I generally only sit upright for 15 mins but do it 2 or 3 times a day.

Gassho
Lucy
Sat today

[Jundo]

This is how the Buddha "Sat" when feeling unwell ...

In fact, true Zazen --is not-- a matter of sitting, standing, walking, running, or flying through the air. Rather, Zazen is any or all of those actions if approached as “Shikantaza” (with that whole philosophy of sincere, dedicated “non-doing” we’ve been talking about every day in this series). As a matter of fact, our Treeleaf Sangha is a place where many folks join us for “sittings” via video and netcast because they are restricted to bed, are in wheelchairs, or are sitting with pain or other such conditions. In that case, I remind everyone that we “sit” wherever and with whatever is. The Buddha, when really very sick, “sat” like this …

Sit-a-Long with Jundo: Zazen for Beginners (Part XIX)

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?7687-Sit-a-Long-with-Jundo-Zazen-for-Beginners-%28Part-XIX%29

Gassho, Jundo

SatToday

[Meian]

This is how the Buddha "Sat" when feeling unwell ...





Sit-a-Long with Jundo: Zazen for Beginners (Part XIX)

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?7687-Sit-a-Long-with-Jundo-Zazen-for-Beginners-%28Part-XIX%29

Gassho, Jundo

SatToday

Hello Jundo,

Just happened to catch your post first this time ....... And glad I did! This photo is what I do sometimes when I am flaring (fibromyalgia) and just need to "not be, not do" for a bit. Very good to know that the Buddha did the same. Thank you!

And - Shingen and Lucy (? i think it was you, Lucy), I've been thinking about that point of not giving in just because I am in pain, but to determine whether it's a conditioned response, or if I really do need to move. I hadn't viewed it that way before, and that's a good point. I'm too tired at the moment to elaborate more on this, but I wanted to say thank you for mentioning that, it is a good perspective that I will keep in mind as a "mind over matter" during zazen.

Gassho,
Kim
Sat today

[Kyonin]

Hi Kim,

Last year I had to sit through severe dental pain because the dentist had to rebuild my jaw. There were times it was maddening and I simply could not sit still because I just wanted to walk and see if it all went away.

But then I sat or walked and dropped the questions, judgments and opinions. Pain was pain. It was there. But pain wasn't me. It was just a condition of life and I was okay with it all.

I learned that the more I sat, the less pain I felt. I even discarded pain killers at all.

So, sit zazen however you can, but sit regularly. It helps a lot.

Speaking about chronic illness, here at home we are dealing with celiac disease and irritable bowel syndrome. My girlfriend is sick. We sometimes have good days, some times we rush to the hospital. But we have found that the days she sits zazen, things go pretty smooth because inflammation lowers a lot and she feels contempt with it all.

Thing is, she resists to sit most of the time because spending time in Facebook is much more appealing.

Hope you feel fine.

Gassho,

Kyonin

[Mp]

I've been thinking about that point of not giving in just because I am in pain, but to determine whether it's a conditioned response, or if I really do need to move.

Hello Kim,

Think of it like an itch on your nose ... most of the time we just itch the itch and don't really think about it. Next time try when the itch comes along to recognize the itch is there, but not to give it attention or become stuck, thus bothered by the itch. However, if the itch doesn't become too much then of course itch it. Know what I mean? =)

Gassho
Shingen

#sattoday

[Jishin]

Hi Kim,

I have back pain and frequently switch from different heights of zafus, seiza benches and chairs. I also do shikantaza laying down sometimes. Sitting up I have never given in to the urge to itch a body part although I make frequent adjustments due to my back. While laying down I give in to itch urges and urges to move more often even though I am not in pain.

Flexibility and fluidity of body and mind is important. It is counterproductive to have posture fetishes. We are into shikantaza and not yoga. Although they are one and the same.

Just my one cent.

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Tai Shi]

I have been sitting since long before, about three years, I joined Treeleaf Zendo, and I have been sitting with my chronic pain in mind. I experience level 8, 9, and 10 frequently, and the methods od Jon Kabot-Zinn have helped, and Jundo has carefully explained that I can also sit Shikantaza with no problem, and I can do both.

Tai Shi
Calm Poetry
sat today
Gassho

[Jinyo]

Hello Kim,

I'm not sure that it's all that helpful to think of Zazen as 'mind over matter' - basically what Jishin wrote makes good sense. When you're coping with chronic illness (I also have severe fibromyalgia/ME and use a wheelchair) it's important to be fluid. Zazen isn't about sitting through pain per se - not if you have a chronic health condition.
But sitting 'with' pain - that's a very different nuance. Best not to set up a battle of 'I will do this even though I'm experiencing increasing pain' but nurture your accepting mind - ' I can manage this pain that is frequently present with some degree of equanimity'. With chronic illness/pain you are dealing with a very real situation 24/7 - and with all due respect I sometimes find the notion of long sits and
pushing the body through pain a bit of fabrication. When you live with pain 24/7 there is no need to fabricate because you are already living with a real life challenge.

For myself - I sit Zazen to open my heart and develop a more compassionate mind. I don't feel I need to push myself through further pain in order to do this.

I wanted to write this but probably won't sit today. We are on holiday and so far it has been a roller coaster of additional illness. Confined to bed when the sun is shining and would love to go down to the coast. So I'll just breath deeply and say my usual morning chants which always includes John Garrie Roshi's poem/prayer
'Peace to all beings' ,

there is so much communal pain in the world the 'story' of this individual body doesn't feel very significant and it helps me to think of it as my empathy radar

Gassho

Willow

[Meian]

Hello all,

I'm replying to a few in this post, but I don't want to forget any names, sooo ......

Yes, after reading the responses, and seeing Jundo's helpful photo and references, I have changed the way I sit. To be honest, my sitting has become more of "laying" - adopting the Buddha's pose in that photo, because it causes me the least amount of pain and stress to my body. I haven't experienced "no pain" in years, there is only varying degrees of widespread pain - from tolerable and functioning to wishing I could drown myself in morphine (not literally). I am finding that "sitting" Buddha-style helps to shift my focus from "managing and adapting" to simply existing, quiet, peace, and letting go for a brief time.

Sometimes I still "sit" traditional style, but since raising this topic and thinking on the responses - yes, I am learning how to bring my zazen into alignment with my body, to allow my body to rest and exist along with my mind.

Thank you all.

Gassho,
Kim
SatToday

[Rich]

I think you have a great attitude and direction. When practicing lying down i keep a cool temp which keeps me awake.

Sat today


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[Kokuu]

Hi Kim

Another sitter with pain here too (ME/CFS and chronic Lyme) and the others have basically said it - you do what you can and adapt as much as you need, dropping comparisons and guilt as much as possible.

Some days I can sit traditional zazen, most days not. On those days I do a combination of breath awareness laying down, tonglen and guided audio meditations. Pain and odd symptoms are triggers for awareness and being connected to the world.

Recently I have found Pat Enkyo O'Hara's book 'Most Intimate' to have a really helpful chapter on being intimate with illness. A while back I made a brief list of books and talks I have found helpful which might be of use: https://andykokuumclellan.wordpress....ronic-illness/

Anyway, you are not alone and I sit for you and all beings who have ill health.

Gassho
Kokuu
#sattoday