Too much Zazen?

[Jishin]

I think this topic is not addressed enough so I will bring it up here.

Is there such thing as too much Zazen. Too much Sesshin?

I believe the answer is yes.

During Zazen the boundaries of self and others soften and we become One. You are me and I am you. An attitude of what I do to you does not matter because we are all one. This is the importance of having a good teacher and a community of practitioners where we can be remain grounded all the while tasting emptiness. What I do to you does matter if we are to save sentient beings from suffering which is the ultimate purpose of Buddhism.

So, the middle way is the best way. Not too much, not too little. Just the right amount of Zazen is needed.

Just my opinion.

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Jundo]

I believe that there are times to sit every day ... time to head to Sesshin and sit many times a day, rising early ... times maybe to take a little break from sitting. Balance is important.

(The latter is no problem, so long as one comes back. It actually can serve to provide context, whereby being away is much like being away from a loved one. Absence can make the heart grow fonder).

That being said ... one can also never escape from Zazen if seeing wisely. Why? Because Zen is all things, all are Zen, and nothing is left out.

During Zazen the boundaries of self and others soften and we become One. You are me and I am you. An attitude of what I do to you does not matter because we are all one.

Yet we are not one, so we say "Not Two". So, how you treat other people matters. Don't get lost in Emptiness.

Gassho, J

[Mp]

That being said ... one can also never escape from Zazen if seeing wisely. Why? Because Zen is all things, all are Zen, and nothing is left out.

Gassho
Shingen

#sattoday

[Jishin]

http://youtu.be/34NkQVr9X54

Not one. Not two.

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Kyonin]

Hi Jishin,

I think there can bee too much zazen when you sit so much it messes up with your own survival and basic needs. Zazen is life, but you need to be alive to sit zazen. The Buddha learned this the hard way, but realized that the middle way is better.

Gassho,

Kyonin
#SatToday

[Jundo]

Hi Jishin,

I think there can bee too much zazen when you sit so much it messes up with your own survival and basic needs. Zazen is life, but you need to be alive to sit zazen. The Buddha learned this the hard way, but realized that the middle way is better.

Gassho,

Kyonin
#SatToday

I bet the Buddha even took a day off. Probably went to see a movie, a ball game, maybe hit a bar for a couple of brews.

Actually, I am being a facetious about the bar ... but there are some old Suttas where he definitely hangs out the "do not disturb" sign on his hut or goes off on his own for a bit. Whether he was meditating the whole time, or watching Netflix and chilling ... nobody can say.

I see nothing wrong with taking some time off. In fact, even those periods that happen to folks where they get sick of Zazen (not to mention Treeleaf and anything connected to Zen) are part of the road ... part of the process, if you will. Hopefully they come back stronger and wiser.

The old Zen guys would get away from the monastery sometimes too. There is a funny Japanese movie about Zen monks, made about 20 years ago. Unfortunately, no subtitles here but you can get the drift. They have snuck out of training for a night of Karaoke in a Hostess Bar, and in the bar they find one of the senior monks also there in a bad wig ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaEyjoKhZsY

The guy with the wig somehow makes it back before them, and they get punished ... a week of toilet cleaing, forced to sit in an uncomfortable formal Seiza way etc. The young monk at the end calls the senior guy out for also always sneaking out to eat Sushi and such ... and then it just turns to chaos.

Gassho, Jundo

[Kyonin]

Hi Jundo!

I really enjoyed the clip even if I only know how to say "hello" in Japanese. What's the name of the movie?

Gassho,

Kyonin
#SatToday

[Kaishin]

Is there such thing as too much Zazen. Too much Sesshin?

Only one way to find out. Start sitting now, and don't stop until you find the answer!

-satToday

[Jishin]

Only one way to find out. Start sitting now, and don't stop until you find the answer!

-satToday

I know the answer. I am asking for the benefit of others.

Gassho, Jishin, ST

[Rich]

I know the answer. I am asking for the benefit of others.

Gassho, Jishin, ST

Thanks jishin. There are accounts of Zen sickness in Zen history. So having a teacher is recommended. I think everyone has to find their own comfort level and style based on their health and life situation.



SAT today

[Joko]

Jundo,

That is a very funny movie and I have a copy. "Fancy Dance" - I wish it had subtitles so more people could enjoy it. Thanks for reminding me.

Joko

Sattoday

[Kyotai]

Yes. I agree. The middle way for all things, including zazen and seshin.

However, I need to sit more.

Gassho, Kyotai
sat today

[Jundo]

Jundo,

That is a very funny movie and I have a copy. "Fancy Dance" - I wish it had subtitles so more people could enjoy it. Thanks for reminding me.

Joko

Sattoday

Yes, "Fancy Dance", a lovely description for all the Ceremony involved in being a monk. Here are the coming attractions, and the story is about a young rock musician who has to enter what appears to be a Soto Zen monastery in order to take over his father's temple.

I believe there is a subtitled version floating around somewhere, very funny.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAXU14CM-jU

Gassho, Jundo

[Jishin]

Thanks jishin. There are accounts of Zen sickness in Zen history. So having a teacher is recommended. I think everyone has to find their own comfort level and style based on their health and life situation.

Here is an excerpt from case one in the Mumonkan:

"It is as though you have snatched the great sword of General Kuan. When you meet the Buddha, you kill the Buddha. When you meet Bodhidharma, you kill Bodhidharma. At the very cliff edge of birth-and-death, you find the Great Freedom. In the Six Worlds and the Four Modes of Birth, you enjoy a samadhi of frolic and play."

I think this is another scenario where teachers are definitely worth a penny or two to make sure it's a round trip on the bus, enjoying the ride and the destination at once without any serious crashes on the way. All of life is our temple.

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

PS: By the way, I think there is little difference between Mu and Shikantaza. But this is just my opinion.

[Rich]

Mu and shikantaza are both breathing.

Hakuin had a bad case of Zen sickness.

SAT today