WHAT's NEXT??

[Jundo]

Hey Guys,

I have just finished going through the Genjo Koan on 'Sit-a-Long' with Jundo', and next I have something very special in store:

I think the subject is so very useful to anyone studying Buddhism, as it can be extremely confusing (both to newcomers and oldcomers), and so I really want to make this series of talks "mandatory listening" ... or, at least, super-highly suggested!

The topic is a very clear list of "Eight Types of Enlightenment" as typically found in various forms of Buddhism, meaning the very different and often totally inconsistent (although sometimes overlapping) visions that various schools of Buddhism propose as the ultimate "goal" at the end of the Buddha's rainbow. Different strands of Buddhism really do have very unique ideas on this whole "Enlightenment" thing, and anyone studying Buddhism can become tangled up in the many ways that teachers of various schools, in different books and teachings, often are proposing radically different goals and different ways to get there. Even within the Zen Schools, or even in the ideas of a single teacher, the ideas get mixed and matched and stuck together. Thus, it is important for students to be able to recognize what is going on.

I ask everyone to download and read the following [PDF], and I will move through it in a series of talks on the blog starting this week:

http://jundotreeleaf.googlepages.com/Ty ... enment.pdf

It is from a book called "The New Buddhism" by David Brazier. What is also interesting is that Mr Brazier seems --not-- to be a Zen Practitioner (I believe he is currently a Pure Land student), and thus offers some criticisms of what he sees as the "Zen" concept(s) of Enlightenment. This will give me a chance to talk about those, although (of course) I do not think many of his criticisms are accurate. Naturally, he seems to propose a "Pure Land" concept of Enlightenment as the best.

I really think you will find it informative, and helpful to your practice and understanding of Buddhist books and teachings. I will start these talks in a day or so.

After we finish these talks, I am then planning to move on to a series of "Sit-a-Longs" looking at the Heart Sutra. And after that ... who knows?!!

Oh, and don't forget our big 4 hour Zazenkai is tomorrow (Saturday 5/3) from 9pm Japan Time.

Gassho, Jundo

[Longdog]

Re: WHAT's NEXT??

Should be interesting, got it downloaded ready to read when I get back from my sunny evenings kayaking out on the north sea.

In gassho, Kev

[Bansho]

Re: WHAT's NEXT??

Hi Jundo,

Cool - sounds great.

I think the subject is so very useful to anyone studying Buddhism, as it can be extremely confusing (both to newcomers and oldcomers), and so I really want to make this series of talks "mandatory listening" ... or, at least, super-highly suggested!

Oh, I consider them all to be mandatory. :wink:

Gassho
Ken

[Skye]

Re: WHAT's NEXT??

What a great read!! This bit cracked me up (p93)

There has been a striking tendency since the time of the Buddha to move enlightenment out of reach. It has become a goal out of reach over the horizon. This is in marked contrast to the picture given by the earliest texts, in which people are becoming arhats on every third page

I don't buy the argument that all those followers were waiting in the bardo for the Buddha and were somehow more special than seekers now :P

[Shindo]

Re: WHAT's NEXT??

Okedoke Jundo - will do
Cheers
Jools

[Undo]

Re: WHAT's NEXT??

Thanks Jundo
These are very helpful and a great benefit to my understanding.
(not that that is saying much :roll: )

Thanks anyway

[will]

Re: WHAT's NEXT??

Hi Jundo

Haven't finished yet, Just started the Zen part.

In the text he mentions the Buddha's original teaching and what the Buddha's point was and how from school to school it was not adhered to. What sutra or discourse is he referring to here? Where can this teaching be found? The Heart Sutra? Four Noble truths?

I apologize if I missed the reference.

G,W

[will]

Re: WHAT's NEXT??

You cut off the Sweet Realm story there. :?

Thanks Jundo. Good resource and I see the Pureland influence a bit.


G,W

[Jundo]

Re: WHAT's NEXT??

Hi Jundo

Haven't finished yet, Just started the Zen part.

In the text he mentions the Buddha's original teaching and what the Buddha's point was and how from school to school it was not adhered to. What sutra or discourse is he referring to here? Where can this teaching be found? The Heart Sutra? Four Noble truths?

I apologize if I missed the reference.

G,W

Hi Will,

I think the author's meaning is that, at this point in time (and since nobody wrote anything down in the Buddha's time, and did not do so until hundreds of years after he died ... at which point folks immediately started disagreeing on the Buddha's message) one guess is almost as good as another as to what the Buddha actually preached ... and it is in the eye of the beholder. Some Sutra and writings are older than others, but all were written by folks interpreting in very different ways the Buddha's teachings.

So, I suppose that our perspective in Zen Practice is that, if "Will" finds "Will's Truth", then the "Buddha" has found "Buddha's Truth".

That, plus there are certain things that all (or almost all) Buddhists agree on, Zen Buddhists included ... such as that the Buddha taught the Four Noble Truths and Eightfold Path, Impermanence and 'No-Self'. We believe that for sure!

Gassho, Jundo

PS- Read the article again slowly, Will. It is worth going through.

[will]

Re: WHAT's NEXT??

at which point folks immediately started disagreeing on the Buddha's message) one guess is almost as good as another as to what the Buddha actually preached ... and it is in the eye of the beholder.

Thanks Jundo. I kind of got that from the article when I finished. ops:

So, I suppose that our perspective in Zen Practice is that, if "Will" finds "Will's Truth", then the "Buddha" has found "Buddha's Truth".

Which means we can't be lead by momma's apron strings the whole time.

G,W

[Yugen]

Re: WHAT's NEXT??

Jundo,
Thank you!

I found a copy of "The Zen Teachings of Homeless Kodo" and he spends quite a bit of time on enlightenment and its various interpretations. I also note that Heinrich Dumoulin in his "History of Zen Buddhism" also spends a lot of time on this in Volume I, as he discusses the break between the Northern and Southern schools at the time of the fifth and sixth zen patriarchs...

So I just go sit and perform pi-kuan (wall-gazing)!

Gassho,
Alex

[clyde]

Re: WHAT's NEXT??

Jundo;

Thank you for suggesting and providing those two chapters on the Varieties of Enlightenment. I found the authors analysis to be fascinating.

But this comment was wonderful: “. . . there are Buddhists of all schools who have continued to live lives of service, adapting to the conditions of their times. That surely is the real enlightenment that he [Buddha] was concerned about.” (page 95)

While we may not know what Buddha actually taught or the details of his life, this “live lives of service” seems to conform to the example of Buddha’s life: he awakened and then performed the service of teaching the Dharma for the remainder of his life.

clyde

[John]

Re: WHAT's NEXT??

That's very interesting Jundo. Thanks. I wonder if you know that Dharmavidya David Brazier is very active on the web and would probably be quite pleased at your interest in his book? I am a Facebook friend of his (he has 418 at the last count).

http://amidatrust.typepad.com/dharmavidya/

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=677671833&ref=nf


Gassho,
John

[John]

Re: WHAT's NEXT??

BTW, he told me he trained in Zen for 20 years. I read one of his books called 'Zen Psychotherapy'

Gassho,
John

[Jundo]

Re: WHAT's NEXT??

Thank you, John. I will drop him a note.

The rest of the book is quite radical, calling for a kind of societal revolution based on Buddhism ... Sentient Beings of the World Unite! Maybe not everyone's taste or view of Buddhism.

It is interesting and I rather like what he proposes, but it might depend on how political someone is and interested in changing the world. Gassho, Jundo