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Last edited by Guest; 02-05-2016, 09:16 AM. -
安泰寺の首座である イタリア系アメリカ人の無為さんと フランス生まれユダヤ人のベン 彼は 僕の同部屋で した。
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Why do you sit here,Soto Japanese style Zazen at Trealeaf?
[QUOTE=Jundo;172555][QUOTE=Konan;172545]
Let me try to summarize in Japanese ...
沈黙の時間があり、話をする時間があります
人々はここよりも安泰寺ではるかに話します。それをすべてを記録した場合, 個人個人やグループの会話で, 人々が生活の中で彼らの問題に天候に洗濯物にメニューにセレモニーの手順に禅について毎日話し ます. それはここに書かれた言葉であり、あなたはネイティブスピーカーではないので、実際よりも複数の単語である と思われるからです。
話をする時間に, 鈴木も多くのことを話しました
もちろん、私たちは日本人としてあなたを尊重し、私たちはあなたとしてあなたを尊重し。 だから何？
だから何？っていう言葉は他人を侮辱する言葉です。辞めてください。だから何？means ,so what? This means be quiet.Last edited by Guest; 02-05-2016, 09:24 AM.Comment
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あなたの頭はアイデアでいっぱいです. インターネット、安泰寺の両方はあなたの考えにのみ存在しています. あなたはそれを理解するまで、あなたがどこまで旅行してもそれは無意味である.
私はあなたが私たちがすべて静かにするべきであると述べたと思いました!!だから何？っていう言葉は他人を侮辱する言葉です。辞めてください。だから何？means ,so what? This means be quiet.
Shyunryu Suzuki said. We say nothing after Zazen. You are saying to much.
Be quiet and just sit.
Gassho, JALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLEComment
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Does anyone else find this exchange with Konan both confusing and disturbing? I believe that everyone here has the utmost respect for all nationalities and cultures. Is it a question of language that is causing some tension? I am grateful that Jundo can help by communicating in Konan's native language. I lived in Japan for 15+ years and have the greatest respect for the culture and the people but what does this have to do with Zen Buddhism?
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkComment
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Hmmmmm.
I will say this, reflecting on my 27 years in Japan. Sure, there is a very common cultural bias here about such things (I am not commenting specifically about what Mr. K. wrote, but a general societal propensity), and some feeling in Japan that "only Japanese" (not even the Chinese, although they are the source of the Zen school) really can understand "Zen". Same for some other traditions ranging from Tea Ceremony to Sumo wrestling.
And you know, they are right! Yes, when it comes to certain aspects of Japanese style Zen Practice, they may be correct. Only a society that can do so well something like this, for example ...
... can understand the power of throwing oneself body&mind into a Zen Ceremony like so (please watch a couple of minutes from the 4:45 mark) ...
... or the precision of the Tea Ceremony (you should watch all if you have the time) ...
Although, that is not really true for I know many foreigners here in Japan who have become masters of such arts, and the elegant precision of such ceremonies (I am certainly not one, being more a master of "Klutz Zen"
).
But ya know, I believe that Zen as it has come to the West has also developed a power, vibrancy, creativity, understanding of history and even of the meaning of the Teachings of the school that may be uncommon here in Japan. On this latter point, one has to know something about the educational system here, including within many of the Buddhist universities and monasteries, which can be very rote, one dimensional and "one ear out the other" among students, many of whom are only young kids trying to get through the monastery as fast as they can to take over their dad's temple (temples are inherited these days in Japan, mostly biological father to son). There is also a stagnating emphasis on Ceremony and Funerals, and little on Zazen or the intellectual side of Zen, which is very much not the case at most Zen Centers in the west. Many experienced people in America and Europe these days are more focused on Zazen (the vast majority of Zen temples, Rinzai and Soto, in Japan have no Zazen group, and only 20% of Japanese Zen priests profess to maintain a sitting habit after leaving the monastery and taking over the family temple), and the westerners may know more deeply about the history, stories and tenets than even many Japanese priests! Truly.
Many of the changes as Buddhism comes West and into modern times may simply be seen as adjustments to fit different cultures and times, some are truly revolutionary, while others may not prove to have been good. Only time will tell. I sometimes say ...
Now, that being said ... I know Americans are just as chauvinistic about, well "AMERICA!" (just attend a Donald Trump rally to see), Spanish people about Flamenco guitar, French people about French cooking (some of the best French chefs in the world these days are not French ... including lots of Japanese) ...In some important ways, sincere lay practitioners today may enjoy better surrounding circumstances for practice than did the average monk in, for example, Dogen's day. Things in the "Golden Age" were not so golden as we too easily romanticize. Most monks back then were half-educated (even in Buddhism), semi-literate (or what passed for literacy in those times), superstition driven, narrow folks who may have understood less about the traditions and teachings they were following ... their history and meaning and depth ... than we now know. The conditions for practice within old temples and monasteries might have been less than ideal, many teachers less than ideal, despite our idealization of the old timers. Studying Sutras by smoky oil lamp, living one's days out in Japan or Tibet while having no real information grasp on China and India and the customs of prior centuries, living in a world of rumor and magic and misunderstanding (in which all kinds of myths and stories and superstitions were taken as explanations for how the world works), unable to access a modern Buddhist library, or to "Google" a reliable source (emphasis on making sure it is reliable however!) to check some point, or to ask a real expert outside one's limited circle, being beholden to only one teacher at a time (no matter how poor a teacher), with no knowledge of the human brain and some very important discoveries of science ... and after all that effort ... getting sick and dying at the age of 40 from some ordinary fever. (Can you even imagine trying to listen to Dogen Zenji recite "live" a Shobogenzo teaching from way across the room ... without a modern microphone and PA system and "Youtube" to let one replay it all? I suppose many never heard a word!)
(maybe that emphasis on ritual and precision has something to do with it?) ...
... including cooking new forms of hybrid Japonaise-Francaise fusion nouvelle cuisine that is simply magnificent, taking the best of all possible worlds.
Perhaps we are cooking a hybrid "fusion nouvelle Zen". So what? DELICIOUS!
Gassho, J
SatToday (on the Zafu which has no east or west).
PS - Foreigners have given a polite "kick in the butt" to the dusty and declining Sumo world as well ..
Last edited by Jundo; 02-11-2016, 04:00 AM.ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLEComment
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Thank you for explaining, Jundo.
I noticed you didn't add Canadians to that list. We do get pretty uptight about certain "Canadian" things like flannel shifts, hockey, and mounties.
Gassho,
Joyo
sat todayComment
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I almost added this guy, who I got to know through the internet ... and because he shares my name ...
... famous Canadian flamenco guitarist James Cohen ...
... and yes, they are a bit "fusion" too ...
... and ain't that magifico!
Gassho, J
SatToday con Duende!Last edited by Jundo; 02-11-2016, 03:55 AM.ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLEComment
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That is awesome ... we just have to get you a hat like that too!I almost added this guy, who I got to know through the internet ... and because he shares my name ...
... famous Canadian flamenco guitarist James Cohen ...
... and yes, they are a bit "fusion" too ...
... and ain't that magifico!
Gassho, J
SatToday con Duende!
Gassho
Shingen
#sattodayComment
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A word to everyone here, please ...
Be gentle with Mr. K. You already are, but I sense some desire to protect me or Treeleaf. Be gentle here. Some may want to be responding sharply out of a desire to react, but I think Mr K is hurting a bit. A friendly smile would be better.
Gassho, JundoALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLEComment
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To answer the original question, I felt I wanted to learn more about Zen, and I found it resonates with me, regardless of cultural bias. There is no place for me to go to a physical Zendo that is convenient to my life. Now that I am here I am not sure I would join another Sangha. I have met and sat with some of you in real-life, and I have sat with some of you online. I don't feel a difference. Sitting is sitting, and if you think there is a difference or that difference is very important, maybe you need to sit some more. I have met Jundo in real life, and I have conversed with him and many others here. My deeper discussions have been here, where people tend to take time before they respond to something. Frankly, I think I learn more here on this forum and more quickly, than I would ever be able to in a real life Zendo.
All of life everywhere is our temple, Japan, the United States, Europe, and yes sadly even Canada
You sit where you sit, you learn where you are. I am not trying to be Japanese and I am not trying to be American either, I am trying to be myself, even while loosing myself.
Gassho
Ishin
#Sat TodayLast edited by Ishin; 02-11-2016, 11:08 PM.Grateful for your practiceComment
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Well said, Ishin.
Gassho
Washin sat-todayKaidō (皆道) Every Way
Washin (和信) Harmony Trust
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I am a novice priest-in-training. Anything that I say must not be considered as teaching
and should be taken with a 'grain of salt'.Comment
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