-
-
While I have great admiration for your desire to place the Dharma within a secular, embodied and practical frame and even share it but you seem to be far afield of anything I can recognize as Buddhism or the Dharma. As others have said I think you need to gain a greater understanding of what the Dharma is before trying to turn it into something else if you are going to try and equate the two.
With no disrespect I found value for myself in reacting to your bullet points so here are some of my thoughts upon reading them.
1// Life in general is not suffering [at least for those of us lucky enough to live in an affluent, trouble- free part of the world.] . It’s just not as good as it could be. Our continuous voluntary involvement in “thinking” - conscious mental activity – obstructs our access to much happiness.
I'm sorry but I just find this assessment wrong, wrong as Buddhism and wrong factually.
Factually I have to assume that you are referring to strictly physical suffering (which is a poor translation of Dukkha) hunger, pain etc. While that may be sometimes true in affluent western societies (and I am not aware of a trouble free part of the world) you ignore that many forms of suffering show increased prevalence in affluent societies such as stress, malaise, dissatisfaction, depression. Dukkha takes many forms and I see no factual basis for saying it has vanished in affluent society. You also ignore that the very affluence you site is paid for with increased physical suffering elsewhere. It has not been eliminated simply moved out of sight.
As Buddhism - This entire statement is in direct opposition to the Dharma as I understand it, as limited as that may be, that being that life is dukkha because we continually view it as not as good as it could be and if we only do X or X happens then we will be happy, for that happiness will be impermanent and and X will soon be replaced with another X for we can always imagine something more. This striving obstructs the ability to address the world we are in and finding satisfaction in the doing of it. The Buddha was very clear he taught the path away from dukkha not toward happiness.
2/ We lose the self [the ego] not because it does not exist but for no other reason than it is a set of ideas and all ideas must be allowed to fade away in meditation.
To my understanding the Dharma teaches us to understand what the self is and that it is not us, to put it into perspective, not to lose it.
3/ Thoughts are not errors, defilements, evil or any other derogatory epithets used to describe the actions of the intellect. They are essential to solving life’s problems . They also instruct is in the art of correct meditation. 21st Century Zen explains how they play no part in our being happy.
Thoughts are not those things but they can be and ignoring that is delusion. The Dharma teaches to seek out and eliminate where they are in error and to use them for what they are good for like solving problems and teaching correct meditation.
4/ The world is real and viewing it with an utterly tranquil mind will not change its appearance in the slightest way. As Dogen said, “fish still swim and birds still fly.”
This one is hard to respond to but I really feel you have it wrong here. The world is just appearance but that is not to say it isn't real. Because of that the experience of it is profoundly shaped by our history and the conceptual structures we have built within our selves. When you see through those things yes “fish still swim and birds still fly.” but our experience of them changes and we exist as that experience so it changes what we are.
5/ All the irrationality in Zen would be swept away, consigned to the past. The message would be clear and unambiguous , giving every person in the world good reasons to spend a little time in meditation and integrate the happiness they gain access to into their daily lives - where it belongs.
I find no irrationality in Zen but rather an effort to break down the conceptualizations we impose on the world. As the Buddha said his message goes against the stream it is not clear and unambiguous at the start for us hairless apes. If it were it wouldn't need to be taught nor require effort to approach. While giving everyone a reason to meditate is admirable it is not equivalent to the Dharma nor again is striving after happiness.
6/ On the downside. Birth, the pains of living , old age and death would still be with us, in spite of any enlightenment we might achieve; nothing can eradicate them. If this was not true, Gotama, Asvagosha and Nagarjuna would be with us today. On the bright side, pleasures would be still accessible in our daily lives; no need to renounce those.
You seem to be contradicting your first point here as the Buddha defines birth, old age and death and the awareness of them as Dukkha which you started out dismissing. The Buddha didn't renounce pleasure or pain but rather attachment to them and frankly you seem within this list to be advocating attachment to pleasure and happiness through tranquility which is completely at odds with my understanding of the Dharma.
Sat today - William"You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes. You can steer yourself any direction you choose. You're on your own. And you know what you know. And YOU are the one who'll decide where to go..."
— Dr. SeussComment
-
This thread has made me thankful, all over again, for our simple practice here at Treeleaf. Life is complicated enough, no need to make it even more so.
Gassho,
Joyo
sat todayComment
-
This thread has made me thankful, all over again, for our simple practice here at Treeleaf. Life is complicated enough, no need to make it even more so.
Gassho,
Joyo
sat today
This. Exactly this. 🙏
Gassho,
Juki
Just sat again today"First you have to give up." Tyler DurdenComment
-
When I was young I thought I had the Four Noble Truths figured out. Piece of cake, right?
Sure, I would enjoy a nice long discussion about if the Buddha was right or not. It felt specially good if I had the illusion of "winning" the argument.
20 years later after pretending being a Buddhist everyday, one morning after extended sittings in Ango I had this beautiful Eureka! moment.
It all made sense for the first time. No words needed, no explanations needed. It all felt REALLY right for the first time inside of me.
What if we just sit and let the dharma manifest? In my experience, excess of words tend to eclipse the simplicity of zazen.
Just a little thought here.
Gassho,
KyoninHondō Kyōnin
奔道 協忍Comment
-
Haha, yes! It all really is so overwhelmingly simple then, isn't it? Words meaningless, discussions pointless.
But I admit I thoroughly enjoy reading this thread. I used to have lengthy discussions like these too and it's fun, and I feel you can learn a lot from them. Mostly about your own delusions, if you listen to yourself honestly. I think they are valuable as long as you see them for what they are.
Gassho
Ongen
Sat TodayOngen (音源) - Sound SourceComment
-
This has been an extremely enjoyable and education thread to read. Chankin makes some good points here and there. I think it's fun to muse on Buddhist concepts and principles as long as we don't try to completely reinvent the wheel. Once we start thinking too hard about what is already extremely simple, then we can find ourselves wearing tin foil hats while hanging around a room chanting "I want to believe".
Gassho _/\_
Kyle
Sat2day.Comment
-
I've been busy this week and just reading through the threads that have been coming up, and noticing a common theme... is it OK to be a little proud of our Sangha and the kindness, patience and growth of everyone's practice? I prefer coffee, black. Glad to share a cup and muse over distinctions with you all for awhile, then get back to sitting.
Gassho,
Jakuden
SatTodayComment
You always help me put my thoughts into words. 
Comment