Feelings of Entrapment.

[Kairu]

I think I may have had the most aggravating zazen session ever. And it was only a short 10 minute sit! It felt like the shortest yet the longest sit, and left me feeling confused.

Worst of all, it felt like every part of my mind left my body and went straight to my head. It felt like my body was just stuck in the sitting pose, but it wasn't my body. I was stuck in my thoughts, trying very hard to swat them away, but with little positive results.

It took me the better half of my sit before I was even able to let my thoughts simply pass on by. Which left me feeling empty inside (not the good kind of empty).

Has this ever happened to anyone else? Arg!

Kyle,
Sat today.

[Jundo]

Hi Arg,

Events like this can happen sometimes in the sensory deprivation tank of Zazen. If it only happens once in a long while, I would not be overly concerned.

Here is my usual comment on such events.

This is a good place to mention "Makyo" ...

In Zen Practice, we have to be careful of certain games the mind will play during Zazen once in awhile ... including unusual visual and auditory sensations, brief periods of paranoia or panic, memories arising from deep down in our subconscious. We are not used to the stillness and quiet of Zazen, and it lets certain memories, emotions, fears and like psychological states rise to the surface ... or allows some things (spots in our eyes that are always there even though not usually noticed, background sounds) to be noticed that are usually blocked out by all the noise and busyness in our heads, senses and around us.

The usual guidance on such events ... Observe, allow, let it go. If such events do not repeat so often, I would not worry.

I link to my usual long posting on so-called "Makyo" mind tricks during Zazen ...

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?12641-Faces-in-the-carpet&p=134634&viewfull=1#post134634

There is a scholar researching some negative effects of meditation called the "Dark Night" project. However, it is my general belief that most truly extreme and powerful negative psychological and emotional states would arise from highly concentrated, intense, very long or focused forms of meditation seeking to give rise to unusual and radically altered mind states. The Shikantaza we sit is rather relaxed, "ordinary mind", low-intensity in style, so I believe that triggering truly extreme negative mental states is unlikely in the way we sit. However, one still needs to be careful for some particularly fragile or sensitive individuals.

http://magazine.good.is/articles/when-meditation-is-bad-for-you

Gassho, Jundo

SatToday

[Frank]

It happens...wonderful advice from Jundo.
ive had similar experiences, I acknowledge them, and let them go.
your normal

[Jishin]

Has this ever happened to anyone else?

No.

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Jakuden]

Hi Kairu,

When I have an odd or unusually turbulent Zazen, it has helped to visualize myself in a boat riding the waves of thought... somehow the analogy allows me to observe the thoughts and let them pass without getting caught up with them, even as my body naturally reacts to the feelings that are constantly surfacing. Sometimes the ocean quiets and the ride becomes smooth, sometimes the entire sit feels like being caught in a storm, but the clear blue sky behind the clouds is always there, regardless of whether the ocean waves are bumping my little boat around.
Some practitioners might advise temporarily going to the breath, deep in the diaphragm rather than the chest, when you are stuck too much in your head? At least I have seen that recommendation for beginners. When I do that during a "difficult" sit, though, I tend to become preoccupied with the tension in my gut and trying to let it go, which seems to me just another way to become caught up in stuff rather than just letting it be what it is. Don't know if any of this has any relevance to your issue, ignore if not

Gassho,
Jakuden
SatToday

[Jundo]

Hi Kairu,

When I have an odd or unusually turbulent Zazen, it has helped to visualize myself in a boat riding the waves of thought... somehow the analogy allows me to observe the thoughts and let them pass without getting caught up with them, even as my body naturally reacts to the feelings that are constantly surfacing. Sometimes the ocean quiets and the ride becomes smooth, sometimes the entire sit feels like being caught in a storm, but the clear blue sky behind the clouds is always there, regardless of whether the ocean waves are bumping my little boat around.

Lovely. Also perhaps excellent advice for approaching all the stormy days of life, on and off the cushion!

Some practitioners might advise temporarily going to the breath, deep in the diaphragm rather than the chest, when you are stuck too much in your head? At least I have seen that recommendation for beginners. When I do that during a "difficult" sit, though, I tend to become preoccupied with the tension in my gut and trying to let it go, which seems to me just another way to become caught up in stuff rather than just letting it be what it is. Don't know if any of this has any relevance to your issue, ignore if not

Yes, I recommend folks return to following the breath for a time when the head gets particularly stormy.

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?7695-Sit-a-Long-with-Jundo-Zazen-for-Beginners-%28Part-XI%29

Gassho,
Jundo
SatToday

[Rich]

Has this ever happened to anyone else? Arg!

Kyle,
Sat today.

Yes, but it is completely made by your mind. Complete delusion. As Jundo says observe it, allow it, let it go. As we stop repressing, all this stuff comes to the surface and we need a little courage to be with it. But right here and now there are no traps.

SAT today

[Byrne]

Whatever happens during zazen don't get attached to it.

Gassho

Sat Today

[Byokan]

Hi Kyle,

A zen story:

A student went to his meditation teacher and said, "My meditation is horrible! I feel so distracted, or my legs ache, or I'm constantly falling asleep. It's just horrible!"
"It will pass," the teacher said matter-of-factly.
A week later, the student came back to his teacher. "My meditation is wonderful! I feel so aware, so peaceful, so alive! It's just wonderful!'
"It will pass," the teacher replied matter-of-factly.



Gassho
Byōkan
sat today

[Kairu]

Thank you all for your help. I didn't really know what was going on, as it's never happened to me before. I guess you learn something new everyday.

Gassho,
Kyle
Sat2day.

[Joyo]

Hi Kyle, it has happened to me also. As others have said, it is just happening in your mind. You can focus on your breath for a bit, or what I do is remind myself to just be, to just sit in this present moment and this is where I am right now. The most important thing is not to let these experiences make you quit sitting, because like all other thoughts (and experiences) they come and go.

Gassho,
Joyo
sat today

[RichardH]

Those moments of entrapment or no-escape have been helpful. It is like there is nowhere to turn, nowhere to go, but I can't stay "here" either. When my wife was sick and was stuck in bed with radiation burns, she said "I'm a bug pinned to the wall. I can either wiggle or just be the wall." So she was just the wall, and despite the physical discomfort she was ok. That was a big lesson really being lived.

Sometimes I give in to restlessness and go from one thing to another trying to fill up, or trying to secure everything, but sometimes I can sit on the spot with what seems unbearable, and It is like the back wall falling away. Everything is the same, but now there space for it to be as it is.
I'll just keep practising.

Please take with a grain of salt.
Gassho
Daizan

Sat today

[Kyonin]

Hi Kyle,

Sometimes that happens and it can be disorienting and confusing. But it's all part of the zazen experience. Sometimes it's just the mind protesting for your immobility.

I would not be concerned if it happens once in a while. In time those episodes might become less and less frequent.

Gassho,

Kyonin
#SatToday

I think I may have had the most aggravating zazen session ever. And it was only a short 10 minute sit! It felt like the shortest yet the longest sit, and left me feeling confused.

Worst of all, it felt like every part of my mind left my body and went straight to my head. It felt like my body was just stuck in the sitting pose, but it wasn't my body. I was stuck in my thoughts, trying very hard to swat them away, but with little positive results.

It took me the better half of my sit before I was even able to let my thoughts simply pass on by. Which left me feeling empty inside (not the good kind of empty).

Has this ever happened to anyone else? Arg!

Kyle,
Sat today.

[Jakugan]

I get this sometimes. Sometimes I feel like my mind goes through all different kinds of thought processes and feelings that arise in Zazen, like mini cycles, until I sit through them and they disappear.

Gassho,

Jakugan,
Sat today

[Geika]

Sometimes I feel that my zazen is going so well and so peacefully. Then, I realize that is also just more thinking and makyo!

Gassho, sat today