Question about the way I do Zazen

[Jundo]

Re: Question about the way I do Zazen

Yes, traditionally we sit facing a blank wall, with eyes 1/3 or 2/3rds open. The reason is to keep us aware, awake and present in the world ... but not too much so.

On the bus, hmmm ... I sometimes stare at the back of the seat in front of me, or at my lap, or at my briefcase, with my eyes 1/3 or 2/3rds open (technically, more accurate than saying "half open"). Nobody seems to care.

Gassho, Jundo

PS- Do you know about our downloadable Zazen timers for Ipod and Mp3 players? Perfect for bus rides.

http://www.treeleaf.org/meditation.html

[Shindo]

Re: Question about the way I do Zazen

Thanks Tracey

Hi Aswini

Jools - Do you sit with your eyes fully open or half open

I would say half open, looking slightly downwards - looking at the awful paint job I did in my spare bedroom . I have to apply some concentration or I find my eyes blur or I see swirly lights - somedays this can be real struggle. I don't appear to reach the deep relaxation that I can achieve with my eyes closed - but I note that it has greater impact upon being less connected with my thoughts.

I read recently in Nishijima Roshi's blog:

The reason why we open our eyes during Zazen.
1) Master Dogen teaches us that the eyes should be open during Zazen in Fukan-zazen-gi and Shobogenzo Zazenigi.
2) In Soto Sect it is the authentic method for us to practice Zazen facing the wall in the case of students.
3) When we close our eyes during Zazen, usually we feel sleepy. At the same time when we close our eyes during Zazen, we are prone to think miscellaneous things in our brain, and so it is much better for us to open eyes during Zazen.
4) During Zazen it is better for us to look at Reality in front of us, and avoid miscellaneous thoughts.

Gudo Wafu Nishijima

As for the bus - I agree with Jundo

Best wishes

Jools

[will]

Re: Question about the way I do Zazen

somedays this can be real struggle. I don't appear to reach the deep relaxation that I can achieve with my eyes closed -

Keep at it Joolsy. I like to think of Zazen (at the moment) as active relaxation.

G,W

[Alberto]

Re: Question about the way I do Zazen

Hi Shui Di

I used to worry a lot about the endless stream of thoughts too, and a teacher told me they were harmless, they were just birds. It took me some time to see it clearly but the thoughts are really the same as birds, or as clouds. What are you going to do if a cloud passes while you are sitting? Probably notice it and that's it. So why should it be different with thoughts? How are they different from the numbness in your leg, the traffic, the growling in your neighbor's tummy or the ever so slight draft of air that touches your skin?

The problems is that we tend to identify ourselves with those thoughts; the only reason they are irritating is that our beloved ego thinks they are in the way of our luminous path to enlightenment (you know Mr. Ego, he always wants to visit fictitious places).

I accept my thoughts for what they are ( birds, airplanes, people passing by the window)and let them go; I stop feeding them and they come less and less often. They don't bother me anymore because they are part of what's going on while I sit, and if that's what's happening it is ok: there's nowhere to go, so there's nowhere else I'd rather be.

Gassho

[Aswini]

Re: Question about the way I do Zazen

Thanks Jools and Jundo. I'll have a good reason to use my zen (ipods boooo!! - http://www.cnet.com.au/mp3players/mp3pl ... 063,00.htm)

I'll use the quotes properly here onwards.

I did zazen with my eyes 1/2-2/3 closed today. I must admit the blinking took getting used to.

I can see what you are saying jools. I noticed feelings in the body more than thoughts compared to when I sit with eyes closed. Also the thoughts seemed to be easier to spot sometimes.

I'll experiment further. Sometimes I like being able to close the eyes to notice the thoughts come and go - sometimes ebb out completely, also when I did vipassana-body-scanning-only my eyes were always closed.

Mettha.

[Jundo]

Re: Question about the way I do Zazen

Hi Alberto,

You say it well. I can tell that you're gonna fit in nice around here! :wink:

Birds, clouds, blue ... all is just the sky. Do not try to break up the sky. Even as we return our attention to the spacious, open blue 10,000 times and 10,000 times again.

As to a "path to enlightenment", I might say that our "Shikantaza" path is to see no path, no destination, and both journey and arrival ever under foot.

I will repost that quote from Uchiyama Roshi, mentioned in the Book Club thread ...

"We practice zazen, neither aiming at having a special mystical experience nor trying to gain greater enlightenment. Zazen as true Mahayana teaching is always the whole self just truly being the whole self, life truly being life."

Gassho, Jundo

[Jundo]

Re: Question about the way I do Zazen

Hi Jools,

I have to apply some concentration or I find my eyes blur or I see swirly lights - somedays this can be real struggle.

The eyes should just be normally focused, but on nothing in particular. I might say "staring idly into space" "looking ahead without thinking about it" is the best description, but we should not allow the eyes to blur or loose focus. Seeing patterns, colors and swirly lights is just something that happens sometimes. The cones and rods of color, for example, are always present in our eyes, but we do not give them notice so often in day to day life. In Zazen, what is always there just stands out sometimes, and the brain plays some tricks by seeing "connect the dot" patterns.

I posted on this awhile back, and we had a related thread ...

http://www.treeleaf.org/forum/viewtopic ... 2828#p2828

Gassho, Jundo

[prg5001]

Re: Question about the way I do Zazen

Hi,

I think that if you stay in the present moment then thoughts can be quite amusing and useful. But when I find a thought has taken me away from the present moment then it's time to leave it alone. I normally say to the thought to stay or go as I have to get back to the sitting.

It's interesting to see how my mind works. Thoughts are the natural function of the human mind, they arise and disappear. Quite a good teaching on impermanence, maybe.

Cheers,

Paul

[will]

Re: Question about the way I do Zazen

Isn't this fun?

G,W

[prg5001]

Re: Question about the way I do Zazen

As much fun as you can have with your clothes on.

[Shindo]

Re: Question about the way I do Zazen

Keep at it Joolsy. I like to think of Zazen (at the moment) as active relaxation.

- Good advice: thanks Willy

And thank you too Jundo - I have tried to review the earlier threads but I missed that one. Sounds like I am trying too hard.

Kindest regards

Jools