Physical pain when sitting

[Ryumon]

Back when I first started meditating regularly, about 25 years ago, I could easily sit for a half hour morning and evening, with no pain. Of course, I'm 25 years older now, and my body's breakdown has led to a lot of issues in my back and neck.

I've been struggling to find a pain-free way to sit lately, trying different cushions, stools, chairs, etc.

Recently, I did some googling, and came across a random video by a svelte young woman discussing pain when sitting.

http://www.amyippoliti.com/2011/06/if-youre-in-pain-after-only-5-10-15-minutes-of-meditation-youre-probably-making-these-common-alignment-mistakes/

And looking at her posture made me wonder: perhaps I'm doing it all wrong. Over the years, I've increased the thickness of my cushions, and there is that young woman sitting on something just a few inches thick. I tried a thinner cushion - an older kapok filled zafu I have - and, lo and behold, there's less pain.

So I'm trying out a number of different heights/thicknesses to see what works best.

It just goes to show: you may be following a path that's wrong, and need just some small adjustments to make it better.

Gassho,

Kirk

#JustSat

[Jishin]

Thank you Kirk.

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Jundo]

Hi Kirk,

I am not a "one size fits all" fellow when it comes to "proper" Zazen posture. There are many balanced and comfortable positions and, if someone has health issues, they have to find the one (or several) that suits them. Taigu makes that same point in his talks on posture, as does this wonderful book. The author says that you will know by listening to your own body and, further, even during a single sitting the "right" posture may change as the body changes.

Book Recommendation: - THE POSTURE OF MEDITATION

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?6913-Book-Recommendation-THE-POSTURE-OF-MEDITATION&p=31651&viewfull=1#post31651

The Lotus Posture is a wonderful, balanced posture for those who can. The Japanese, however, tend to fetishize Lotus as "THE POSTURE" much more than even most continental Buddhists. Now, outside of Japan (and even there a little) alternatives such as Seiza benches and chairs have become acceptable. However, if you find something which is "sweet" for you ... just do that. Reminds me of the old joke ...


The patient says, "Doctor, it hurts when I do this." Doctor says, "Then don't do that!"

I would add:

Patiens says, "Doctor, it feels right when I do this." Doctor say, "Then do that!"

If it is a balanced, easy, comfortable position your body will tell you, because it will feel balanced, easy and comfortable.

I told you much the same a few weeks ago ...

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?14014-Sitting-with-lower-back-yain&p=168120&viewfull=1#post168120

Gassho, J

SatToday

[Ryumon]

Yes, Jundo, I remember. It has been getting frustrating lately. I do have back issues that make things more complicated, but I just realized that I was going butt-headedley in the wrong direction. I've ordered one of those crescent-shaped zafus to see how that works out. It will be thinner, and the different shape might provide better support.

I did read the book you mentioned, and, like Taigu, I have experience with the Alexander Technique. But it is still hard to get the right balance on the cushion. I thought it was worth pointing out, however, that changing in an unexpected direction had a positive affect on my pain.

By the way, my post a few weeks ago was about lower back pain; I hurt my back very badly in July. These new comments are more general, about pain that I have long felt in my upper back and neck. They seem to be caused more by incorrect posture then any specific injury, though I do have a slight scoliosis. By the way, my post a few weeks ago was about lower back pain; I hurt my back very badly in July. These new comments are more general, about pain that I have long felt in my upper back and neck. They seem to be caused more by incorrect posture then any specific injury, though I do have a slight scoliosis.

Gassho,

Kirk

#SatToday

[Joyo]

Hi Kirk, this might help you also. I went to a meditation seminar several weeks ago. She showed us many different ways to sit and, like Jundo, encouraged a position that does not cause pain. So now I sit on afghan folded up (about 2 or three inches thick) a few inches from the wall. I then use my halfmoon zafu, which is propped up against the wall, to support my lower back.

Gassho,
Joyo
sat today

[Ryumon]

Since we sit facing the wall, I've not tried that, but I might want to do so. I do use a zabuton under my legs, and that certainly mitigates some of the knee pain. As I said I ordered a crescent zafu - presumably what you mean by a half-moon one - and I'll see how that helps.

Gassho,

Kirk

#SatToday

[Joyo]

Oh yes, I would say crescent zafu and halfmoon are the same thing. Mine is extra thick because I ordered more buckwheat to fill it up, so it really is a nice back support. And no, I no longer sit facing the wall. However, I can comfortably sit for 1/2 an hr and even join in with zazenkai with no back issues, so this sitting position may help you also.

Gassho,
Joyo
sat today

[Ryumon]

I ordered the crescent with a zipper - they don't all have one - so I can add or remove buckwheat. Good to know; I'll be getting it in a few days, and I'll post here about how it works out.

Thanks again,

Kirk

#SatToday