Stephen Batchelor's After Buddhism

[Doshin]

Thanks for the above assessments it helped me. I listened to this as a book on tape while doing a 15 hour drive a week ago. Like Zazen there were times I had to bring my mind back to the present when I drifted off. so I made some assumptions where there were gaps and probably misinterpretations of what he meant (especially when trucks pass me with gusto and on coming traffic ahead). It was all very interesting, but I agree with a the point made a couple times above....there were times I thought he was making assumptions based on what..oral history? As Jundo points out he seemed to be making leaps of faith...being a skeptic of the consistency of facts over thousands of years with seemingly large gaps filled in by even less reliable oral history I would often think that is an interesting hypothesis versus the known truth. I did enjoy listening and could identify with a lot of his observations

Gassho
Doshin
Sattoday

[Risho]

I really liked the book; I don't know what is accurate vs. speculation, but it sort of helped me clarify my practice in a way, which is why I think it's really well done.

For example, I like the nuance between 4 noble tasks vs. 4 noble truths (as it is commonly translated); it makes it more an action than a realization, but I think it's both really.

But a lot of the revelation in the book I feel is what we already have in Zen. I think a lot of what Batchelor reacts to in traditional Tibetan Buddhism are cultural traditions more than Buddhism itself, although that is a specious argument and what is "Just Buddhism" anyway without a culture to call it home? So of course Buddhism (like any religion) is going to take on the cultural nuances from where it is currently being practiced. I feel that in Zen, although there are still superstitions and so forth, that Zen is focused more on practice and not as laden with the some of the traditional views he takes issue with.

I also thought the part with Mahakayasapa not really showing up until late in the Buddha's life and sort of taking over in a power play (of ascetics vs. liberals) was interesting. I see that struggle today. So the talk on Vulture Peak with the flower and transmission may not have happened after all. But I think that too is something we accept in Zen without being too concerned with it.

I also find the part about Ananda compelling; again illustrating the power play that happened after the Buddha's death. But that is to be expected. Here is the Buddha and he dies; someone is going to want that.

And you know, Batchelor talks about this, that the Buddha didn't want anyone to take over for him. In a way, I can appreciate that, but if no one did, we wouldn't be here now, so I think what the Buddha wanted (if in fact that is accurately described in the canon) was some loose knit group of practitioners may have been naive. Sure you don't need a tight knit cult, but without teachers sharing the way and explaining and doing what is done here, I doubt it would have taken root and still be around today.

In the end, I like the book because it makes me look at my practice, why I do things, etc. Are certain things conjecture? Sure. Is there some throwing out of the baby and the bathwater? of course. lol So I wouldn't take this as a point of fact, but I think it's a valuable book nonetheless. It raises questions and gives the Buddha a human side, which is refreshing.

Gassho,

Risho
-sattoday