"Book club"

[bluecat]

I have seen the Book club thread on the forum however this is more a general question.

Is it allowable to start a thread discussion about a book and ask for insights from others on the forum?

I have read many books but feel that my knowledge alone isn't enough to get the "whole story" from what I have read.

I am preparing to read the Compass of Zen once I have finished the book I am currently working through. If I need clarity or have questions can I use these forums for assistance? Is anyone else interested in reading this book starting in early January? Perhaps we can begin an exchange of thoughts, etc as we read through it?

Sat today.

Thank you in advance for your time.

[Jundo]

I have seen the Book club thread on the forum however this is more a general question.

Is it allowable to start a thread discussion about a book and ask for insights from others on the forum?

I have read many books but feel that my knowledge alone isn't enough to get the "whole story" from what I have read.

I am preparing to read the Compass of Zen once I have finished the book I am currently working through. If I need clarity or have questions can I use these forums for assistance? Is anyone else interested in reading this book starting in early January? Perhaps we can begin an exchange of thoughts, etc as we read through it?

Sat today.

Thank you in advance for your time.

Hi Bluecat,

Of course you can. Please do.

One point to be aware of, though, is that not all "Zen" books represent precisely the same styles and forms of Practice. It can be sometimes like asking how to make Texas Chili in an Italian cooking class. All delicious, but not the same spice or technique.

"Compass of Zen" is by the great Korean Rinzai Teacher, Seung Sahn, and a bit different in emphasis and flavor from the Shikantaza Practice here, as he was generally more oriented toward his way (rather his own making, by the way) of Koan Introspection Zazen.

The Compass of Zen is a book of teachings by the late Seung Sahn Soen Sa Nim, a compilation of talks given by him since 1977 that were then edited by his student Hyon Gak (Paul Muenzen). Designed to offer readers an introduction to the teachings of the Mahayana, Hinayana and Zen traditions ... Until it was first published by Shambhala Publications in 1997, much of the material was already being used in the Kwan Um School of Zen curriculum. Rather than pretending to be a work of academia, The Compass of Zen was presented in everyday language for its readership. In addition to coverage of the aforementioned topics, the book also contains Seung Sahn Soen Sa Nim's "The Ten Gates", a glossary of terms, and his lineage chart. "The Ten Gates" is his own kong-an curriculum for students in his Kwan Um lineage, each one being followed by commentary by him in the text. Today there are Twelve Gates.
...
Seungsahn implemented the use of simple phraseology to convey his messages, delivered with charisma, which helped make the teachings easier to consume for Western followers. Some of his more frequently employed phrases included "only go straight" or "only don't know". He even went so far as to call his teachings "Don't Know Zen", which was reminiscent of the style of Bodhidharma. Seungsahn used correspondences between himself and his students as teaching opportunities. Back-and-forth letters allowed for a kind of dharma combat through the mail and made him more available to the school's students in his absence. This was another example of his skillful implementation of unorthodox teaching methods, adapting to the norms of Western culture and thus making himself more accessible to those he taught. ... Seungsahn also developed his own kōan study program for students of the Kwan Um School, known today as the "Twelve Gates". These twelve kōans are a mixture of ancient cases and cases which he developed. Before receiving inka to teach (in Kwan Um, inka is not synonymous with Dharma transmission), students must complete the Twelve Gates, though often they will complete hundreds more. One of the more well known cases of the Twelve Gates is "Dropping Ashes on the Buddha", the Sixth Gate, which is also the title of one of his books. In the book The Compass of Zen, this kong-an is transcribed as follows: "Somebody comes to the Zen center smoking a cigarette. He blows smoke and drops ashes on the Buddha." Seungsahn then poses the question, "If you are standing there at that time, what can you do?" Not included in this version of the kōan is the Kwan Um School of Zen's following side note on the case, "[H]ere is an important factor in this case that has apparently never been explicitly included in its print versions. Zen Master Seung Sahn has always told his students that the man with the cigarette is also very strong and that he will hit you if he doesn't approve of your response to his actions."

(pardon the Wiki copying, but it actually seems a fairly good description)

I often say that Buddhism, including Zen Buddhism, has many fine flavors ... "All Precisely the Same, Though Sometimes Quite Different; Perhaps Very Different, Yet Just The Same".

Here are some readings for folks new to all this, although they paint with too broad strokes. They also don't particularly discuss Seung Sahn's wonderful style of cooking, by the way, and are just a general discussion of the flavors of Buddhism, Shikantaza and Koan Introspection Zazen.

Special reading - once born twice born zen (part not 1)

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?6514-Special-reading-once-born-twice-born-zen-%28part-not-1%29

Special reading - once born twice born zen (part not 2)

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?6539-Special-reading-once-born-twice-born-zen-%28part-not-2%29

Special reading - eight types of enlightenment
http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showt...-enlightenment

Those readings and more on Shikantaza can be found here ...

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?53-TEACHER-TALKS-TIPS-and-TOPICS

However, if you wish to start the discussion, please do. I believe the matching and contrasts would be helpful to many folks.

Gassho, Jundo

[Rich]

Have read it, have a copy and open for discussion.

SAT today

[Jishin]

I have a copy on hand too.

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[bluecat]

Thank you for replying to the original post.
After considering what Jundo shared above I feel a better choice for discussion in this forum would be "Opening the Hand of Thought" by Kosho Uchiyama Roshi as it is one of Treeleaf's recommended books.

My plan is to begin January 5 and feel that any conversation generated would be beneficial.

Thanks again for your time.

Sat Today.

[Tb]

Hi.

Actually, we already have a discussion on that book, in the bookclubsection, here: http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showt...AND-OF-THOUGHT

But, yes, i am game talking about books other than the one we read in our current bookclub, as long as we do that communityproject too...

Mtfbwy
Fugen

#Sat2day

[bluecat]

Thank you Fugen, I did see that thread but I couldn't find any discussion other than the two replies to Jundo's post.

I in no way am trying to take away anything from the forums by having this discussion and apologize if it cam across that way.

[Byokan]

Hi bluecat,

I think there's room for 100 different threads on 100 different books and sutras, and I'd like to see more of this. (Maybe not all at once!) I'd be most interested in books that are on our reading list, but am open to all. If you name the thread simply -- whatever the book is named -- it is easily searched and whoever picks up the book later can add their thoughts and questions as time goes on.

Gassho
Lisa
sat today

[Jundo]

Thank you for replying to the original post.
After considering what Jundo shared above I feel a better choice for discussion in this forum would be "Opening the Hand of Thought" by Kosho Uchiyama Roshi as it is one of Treeleaf's recommended books.

My plan is to begin January 5 and feel that any conversation generated would be beneficial.

Thanks again for your time.

Sat Today.

Yes, always a good time to discussion "Opening the Hand of Thought", so please feel free to post about your readings. That book is truly Timeless.

Even Compass of Zen, if we want to chat a bit about the mix and match of styles and varied approaches (to what is ultimately Matchless and can't be Approached).

And then, of course, we close the books and sit.

Gassho, J

SatToday

[CK732]

I would like to read either one. Let me know when the reading starts.

Gassho

Clarisse Sat2Day


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[Kaishin]

Hi, I am game. Would be good to read Opening the Hand of Thought again.

[Jakuden]

I have "Opening the Hand of Thought" and would be glad to follow along!

Gassho,
Sierra
SatToday

[Hoseki]

I'm in too but we're expecting our second child soon and if things go more or less the same way. There will be a good six months where my reading comprehension (due to fatigue) will be practically non existent.

Gassho
Sat today
Adam


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[Jishin]

I got a better idea. Let's write a book collectively under Jundo's guidance. That sounds better than reading another worthless zen book. I just made my contribution to the book with this idea. The rest is up to you all.

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[bluecat]

My plan is to begin reading "Opening the Hand of Thought on January 4. If it works for everyone I can post some thoughts on Chapter 1 on January 11 and plan to go from there forward, posting something each Monday regarding the newest chapter.
If there is a lot of discussion about a chapter we can hold off for a week or longer until we are all set to move on.

I have not participated in too many book online discussions but have found this sort of process works well with "in-person" book discussions.