The layman. The monk. No one.

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  • Jundo
    replied
    Originally posted by Kairu
    Hello fellow Treeleafers,

    I've begun to understand the differance/non-differance between those who wholeheartedly act out their practice in a monestary, and those who wholeheartedly act out their practice in "normal" life. One seems ruthless, as the other gains no publication.

    I have been contemplating putting every fiber of my being Into the practice, but have been hesitant because I don't know if its necessary or not. Even today I bowed to a toilet I was about to clean at work, but almost felt as though I shouldn't have to because "I'm just a layman".

    I have met some Buddhists in my lifetime who live as though their home is a monestary, and I have met those who treat the practice casually (but not without seriousness).

    What is the way way? I'd sure like to.

    Kyle,
    Sattoday.

    Sent from my LG-D851 using Tapatalk
    It may be interesting to you that, by the Buddha's own Words in the old Suttas, living an ordinary life ... finding balance and Buddha in all daily things and the complexities of this world ... may actually be the HARDER and more DEMANDING practice than being in a monastery! It is true. By one perspective, the Buddha traditionally may have been prescribing "homeleaving" and practice "removed from the world" for folks who just could not 'handle it on the outside' (as they say in prison movies). The Buddha was quoted to say the following in several old Sutta ... such as here, from the Cūḷahatthipadopama Sutta: The Shorter Discourse on the Simile of the Elephant’s Footprint ...

    ... Notice that the Buddha simply says "not easy, while living in a home". This implies that leaving home is the easier path, while Practice amid the crowds and dust takes some Mahayana Insight to simultaneously encounter the utterly perfect in and amid the crowds, the purity unhindered by dust. He never says it is impossible at all at home ... just not as easy.

    “A householder or householder’s son or one born in some other clan hears that Dhamma. On hearing the Dhamma he acquires trust in the Tathāgata. Possessing that trust, he considers thus: ‘Household life is crowded and dusty; life gone forth is wide open. It is not easy, while living in a home, to lead the holy life utterly perfect and pure as a polished shell. Suppose I shave off my hair and beard, put on the yellow robe, and go forth from the home life into homelessness.’ On a later occasion, abandoning a small or a large fortune, abandoning a small or a large circle of relatives, he shaves off his hair and beard, puts on the yellow robe, and goes forth from the home life into homelessness."

    http://www.wisdompubs.org/book/middl...padopama-sutta
    The routine, set schedule, warm place to sleep, hot meals, and "leaving worldly responsibilities behind" could be a shelter for those afraid of the world. In fact, the "world out there" is "Ruthless Practice," my friend.

    There are folks better suited to Practice inside walls, some outside, some as hermits naked in a cave. Different medicines for different patients, and Buddhism thrives for having all kinds. All good, so long as we drop all thought of "walls". For most of us, I believe that there is a time to Practice in Retreat, sitting long and hard (like Mr. K. at Antaiji these days, sitting Zazen 15 hours a day in Sesshin, working in the fields and bowing to the WC), and there is a time to find our sacred space in each inch of this world. We find that Buddha’s Truths may be practiced any place, without divisions of “inside” walls or “outside”. For some of us, the family kitchen, children’s nursery, office or factory where we work diligently and hard, the hospital bed, volunteer activity or town hall are all our “monastery” and place of training. Some monks act self-lessly, while on the other hand, I have seen monks as concerned about "getting ahead" shining and "publication" inside monasteries as in any Fortune 500 company ... depends on the person.



    I have seen folks outside (some working for companies) who are truly self-effacing, other directed and with no place in need of going.

    About 150 years ago, Japanese priests began openly marrying, having kids and "the full catastrophe" (to quote Zorba the Greek). I believe it a good thing for some of us.

    For thousands of years, it was nearly impossible to engage in dedicated Zen practice except in a monastic setting, to access fellow practitioners, teachers and teachings, to have the time and resources and economic means to pursue serious practice, except by abandoning one’s worldly life. By economic and practical necessity, a division of “Priest” and “Lay” was maintained because someone had to grow the food to place in the monks’ bowls, earn the wealth to build great temples, have children to keep the world going into the next generation. Although Mahayana figures like Vimalakirti stood for the principle that liberation is available to all, the practical situation was that only a householder with Vimalakirti’s wealth, leisure and resources might have a real chance to do so. Now, in modern societies with better distributions of wealth (compared to the past, although we still have a long way to go), ‘leisure’ time, literacy and education, media access and means of travel and communication across distances, many of the economic and practical barriers to practice and training have been removed. This is the age when we may begin to figuratively “knock down monastery walls”, to find that Buddha’s Truths may be practiced any place, without divisions of “inside” walls or “outside”.

    In other words, bowing to toilet is not a matter of priest or layman. Everybody, even the Buddha, uses the toilet and can bow.

    Anyway, enough of my soap box.

    If you are interested, I wrote several essays on these topics found in this thread ...

    . I often feel that monastic practice is so "yesterday" ... so "13th Century".It's true, and in some very important ways, it may be time to knock down the monasteries, throwing their cloistered inhabitants into the streets! ** For most of its history, lay practice has taken a back seat to the "real


    Gassho, J

    SatToday right Thru Inside and Outside
    Last edited by Jundo; 11-26-2015, 05:14 AM.

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  • Jundo
    replied
    Originally posted by Byrne
    Bowing ain't my thing. Feels weird. Feels artificial. When I'm finding myself at a service with a lot of bowing I play along respectfully, but in day to day I try to keep the sense of what we all sense through this senseless practice on my mind and hope it comes through in my actions. I dig toilets though. They do a fine job.

    Gassho

    Sat Today
    Sometimes when doing a lot of bowing and bowing at a Sesshin, it begins to feel repetitive, pro forma.

    At other times though, I have been so moved with feelings of gratitude for the interconnection and mutual support of everybody and everything in life ... toilets and mountains, spoons and shovels, flowers and stars ... that I have cried like a baby as I bowed.

    Gassho, J

    SatToday

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  • Byrne
    replied
    Bowing ain't my thing. Feels weird. Feels artificial. When I'm finding myself at a service with a lot of bowing I play along respectfully, but in day to day I try to keep the sense of what we all sense through this senseless practice on my mind and hope it comes through in my actions. I dig toilets though. They do a fine job.

    Gassho

    Sat Today

    Leave a comment:


  • Kyonin
    replied
    Hi Kyle,

    It is true what the folks up there say. Life is our temple and everything we do is sacred. Sometimes bowing to a toilet allows us to acknowledge its usefulness, the work behind it and how much it serves to our lives. Sometimes there's no time for that or we simple aren't in a mindful mood.

    Just today I bowed several times to an old computer that died on me. It was a friend that served me well for 8 years! I bowed, felt a little sad and will sit and light some incense for it.

    Whatever the case, we must learn to see all in life is sacred. You don't need to be a monk to realize this.

    Gassho,

    Kyonin
    #SatToday

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  • Jishin
    replied
    Hi,

    I don't bow to the toilette because I crap in it.

    Gassho, Jishin, ST

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  • Rich
    replied
    The way is loose and natural. It's just that most of the time we are caught up in our thinking, delusion and ego. Just being aware helps.

    SAT today

    Leave a comment:


  • Ryan379
    replied
    Life is our temple
    Our home is our monastery
    Work is our samu
    All is sacred
    Every moment is an opportunity to practice

    Personally I see nothing wrong in bowing to the toilet, the shower, toothbrush etc, gasshoing before and after eating, gasshoing to others etc.

    Since nothing is separate we're simply bowing and gasshoing to ourselves, and to the universe in its various manifestations

    On the subject of bowing to toilets, I believe that in Zen temples in Japan monks and priests bow and even prostrate 3 times before the toilet etc before and after use at times

    Gassho

    Ryan

    Sat Today

    Leave a comment:


  • Kairu
    started a topic The layman. The monk. No one.

    The layman. The monk. No one.

    Hello fellow Treeleafers,

    I've begun to understand the differance/non-differance between those who wholeheartedly act out their practice in a monestary, and those who wholeheartedly act out their practice in "normal" life. One seems ruthless, as the other gains no publication.

    I have been contemplating putting every fiber of my being Into the practice, but have been hesitant because I don't know if its necessary or not. Even today I bowed to a toilet I was about to clean at work, but almost felt as though I shouldn't have to because "I'm just a layman".

    I have met some Buddhists in my lifetime who live as though their home is a monestary, and I have met those who treat the practice casually (but not without seriousness).

    What is the way way? I'd sure like to.

    Kyle,
    Sattoday.

    Sent from my LG-D851 using Tapatalk
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