No Water, No Moon

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  • Mp
    • May 2024

    No Water, No Moon

    Hello everyone,

    I came across this wonderful talk about a poem that was written by a Zen Nun named Chiyono (Mugai Nyodai) called, "No Water, No Moon. Enjoy!

    With this practice as my companion, I have only to go about my daily life, practicing day and night. ~ Chiyono


    Here also is a nice little write up as well. =)

    Gassho
    Shingen

    #sattoday
  • Myosha
    Member
    • Mar 2013
    • 2974

    #2
    Hello,

    Thank you for the link.


    Gassho
    Myosha sat today
    "Recognize suffering, remove suffering." - Shakyamuni Buddha when asked, "Uhm . . .what?"

    Comment

    • Kyonin
      Treeleaf Priest / Engineer
      • Oct 2010
      • 6739

      #3
      Thank you Shingen!

      Everything is interconnected indeed.

      Beautiful story

      Gassho,

      Kyonin
      #SatToday
      Hondō Kyōnin
      奔道 協忍

      Comment

      • Washin
        Treeleaf Unsui
        • Dec 2014
        • 3749

        #4
        Thank you Shingen, beautiful.
        I love the story of Lady Chiyo.

        Gassho,
        Sergey
        sat-today
        Kaidō (皆道) Every Way
        Washin (和信) Harmony Trust
        ----
        I am a novice priest-in-training. Anything that I say must not be considered as teaching
        and should be taken with a 'grain of salt'.

        Comment

        • Jundo
          Treeleaf Founder and Priest
          • Apr 2006
          • 39074

          #5
          Thank you, Shingen.

          I am always reminded of Master Dogen's very beautiful take on this from the Genjo ...

          Enlightenment is like the moon reflected on the water. The moon does not get wet, nor is the water broken. Although its light is wide and great, the moon is reflected even in a puddle an inch wide. The whole moon and the entire sky are reflected in dewdrops on the grass, or even in one drop of water. Enlightenment does not divide you, just as the moon does not break the water. You cannot hinder enlightenment, just as a drop of water does not hinder the moon in the sky. The depth of the drop is the height of the moon. Each reflection, however long or short its duration, manifests the vastness of the dewdrop, and realizes the limitlessness of the moonlight in the sky.

          http://www.thezensite.com/ZenTeachin...GenjoKoan8.htm
          Gassho, J

          SatToday
          ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

          Comment

          • Mp

            #6
            Originally posted by Jundo
            Thank you, Shingen.

            I am always reminded of Master Dogen's very beautiful take on this from the Genjo ...

            Enlightenment is like the moon reflected on the water. The moon does not get wet, nor is the water broken. Although its light is wide and great, the moon is reflected even in a puddle an inch wide. The whole moon and the entire sky are reflected in dewdrops on the grass, or even in one drop of water. Enlightenment does not divide you, just as the moon does not break the water. You cannot hinder enlightenment, just as a drop of water does not hinder the moon in the sky. The depth of the drop is the height of the moon. Each reflection, however long or short its duration, manifests the vastness of the dewdrop, and realizes the limitlessness of the moonlight in the sky.

            http://www.thezensite.com/ZenTeachin...GenjoKoan8.htm
            Gassho, J

            SatToday
            Yes, beautiful words indeed Jundo. =)

            Gassho
            Shingen

            #sattoday

            Comment

            • Banto
              Member
              • Jan 2015
              • 209

              #7
              Thank you Shingen just listened. You mentioned a write up but I'm not seeing it on the link you have of the audio. Maybe it doesn't show on tapatalk or I might be just overlooking it?
              Gassho
              Rodney #sattoday


              Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

              Banto (aka Rodney)
              万磴 (Myriad StoneSteps)

              Comment

              • Kyonin
                Treeleaf Priest / Engineer
                • Oct 2010
                • 6739

                #8
                Hi Jundo,

                It's funny, but I have been thinking about this lately. The first thing that comes to mind is fractals in nature. Every point of a fractal branch contains the information required to create a new branch, exactly the same as the point it comes to. This leads to an infinity of patterns and replication (reflections?) of the original and it's environment.

                Could it be that Dogen felt the sacredness in nature and its fractal patterns?

                Oh look, it's a Treeleaf!



                Gassho,

                Kyonin
                #SatToday

                Originally posted by Jundo
                Thank you, Shingen.

                I am always reminded of Master Dogen's very beautiful take on this from the Genjo ...

                Enlightenment is like the moon reflected on the water. The moon does not get wet, nor is the water broken. Although its light is wide and great, the moon is reflected even in a puddle an inch wide. The whole moon and the entire sky are reflected in dewdrops on the grass, or even in one drop of water. Enlightenment does not divide you, just as the moon does not break the water. You cannot hinder enlightenment, just as a drop of water does not hinder the moon in the sky. The depth of the drop is the height of the moon. Each reflection, however long or short its duration, manifests the vastness of the dewdrop, and realizes the limitlessness of the moonlight in the sky.


                Gassho, J

                SatToday
                Hondō Kyōnin
                奔道 協忍

                Comment

                • Jeremy

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Rodney
                  Thank you Shingen just listened. You mentioned a write up but I'm not seeing it on the link you have of the audio. Maybe it doesn't show on tapatalk or I might be just overlooking it?
                  Gassho
                  Rodney #sattoday
                  I guess this is a different write up from the one Shingen mentioned, but I enjoy this commentary:

                  which interprets the story as being about letting go of things or allowing things to fall apart.

                  step lightly... stay free...
                  Jeremy
                  sattoday

                  Comment

                  • Mp

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Rodney
                    Thank you Shingen just listened. You mentioned a write up but I'm not seeing it on the link you have of the audio. Maybe it doesn't show on tapatalk or I might be just overlooking it?
                    Gassho
                    Rodney #sattoday


                    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                    Jeremy actually posted the one I was mentioning, but didn't paste in. Thank you Jeremy and Rodney. =)



                    Gassho
                    Shingen

                    #sattoday

                    Comment

                    • Jakuden
                      Member
                      • Jun 2015
                      • 6142

                      #11
                      Thank you Shingen, this is beautiful.

                      Gassho,
                      Sierra
                      SatToday

                      Comment

                      • Banto
                        Member
                        • Jan 2015
                        • 209

                        #12
                        'Hearing the words “with this and that” I felt the exhaustion of years of vigilance, all aimed at protecting my idea of myself'

                        Interesting. I can relate to pieces of this, the scramble to keep it together. Letting go of self in relation and contrast to patching with bamboo.

                        But in this story, is the moon our suffering?

                        Gassho,
                        Rodney #sattoday


                        Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

                        Banto (aka Rodney)
                        万磴 (Myriad StoneSteps)

                        Comment

                        • Risho
                          Member
                          • May 2010
                          • 3179

                          #13
                          Thank you Shingen

                          Rodney, that is a good question --> the moon is typically associated with enlightenment. The narrator mentions this in the audio, and you'll see it in Zen symbolism quite a bit. I think, and I want to try to answer your question because I have the same question in a way.... I think that the moon being reflected in the water is an image of the self. The self is in that bucket, and it reflects the moonlight - or it is enlightened. But I think that the nun was trying to grasp for enlightenment as something outside of herself. And to be honest, who doesn't come to practice looking for something. But when the bottom of the bucket fell out, no more moon in the water -- no more separation.. beyond form and emptiness, beyond self and other, just this.

                          What is just this?!

                          Dogen's famous question: we are already enlightened, so why do we need to practice? We practice because that is the activity of an enlightened being; it's an expression of who and what we all are; it is the path and the goal and everything here and now. We practice to practice, not as a means to grasp toward some thing out there called enlightenment. It's like if you saw someone on the street and asked them directions to planet Earth. Or in the Sandokai, "Walking forward in the way, you draw no nearer progress no farther".

                          But even though we don't gain anything, that dropping of gain and loss, that ability to be pulled by thoughts, but then to "VOOMP" back again over and over is something very, very special.

                          I came across a discussion on the internet this week about "how to Shikantaza" ... and much good and solid advice was given. Some folks follow the breath, some "Just Sit" in boundless spaciousness, some advised this or that on the posture and letting thoughts go. All wise and good, and talk of posture, focus


                          If you are not practicing to gain enlightenment. If this life, here and now is Nirvana. If all of the ups and downs, when we are in pain, when we face death, this is paradise. That is a very, very special way of living. It's like jumping into life without regret. And feeling like shit, but not worrying about feeling like shit. Allowing it, but still having that underlying stillness that it's ok; it's ok to not be ok.

                          Gassho,

                          Risho
                          -sattoday
                          Last edited by Risho; 11-16-2015, 12:17 AM.
                          Email: risho.treeleaf@gmail.com

                          Comment

                          • Mp

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Risho
                            Thank you Shingen

                            Rodney, that is a good question --> the moon is typically associated with enlightenment. The narrator mentions this in the audio, and you'll see it in Zen symbolism quite a bit. I think, and I want to try to answer your question because I have the same question in a way.... I think that the moon being reflected in the water is an image of the self. The self is in that bucket, and it reflects the moonlight - or it is enlightened. But I think that the nun was trying to grasp for enlightenment as something outside of herself. And to be honest, who doesn't come to practice looking for something. But when the bottom of the bucket fell out, no more moon in the water -- no more separation.. beyond form and emptiness, beyond self and other, just this.

                            What is just this?!

                            Dogen's famous question: we are already enlightened, so why do we need to practice? We practice because that is the activity of an enlightened being; it's an expression of who and what we all are; it is the path and the goal and everything here and now. We practice to practice, not as a means to grasp toward some thing out there called enlightenment. It's like if you saw someone on the street and asked them directions to planet Earth. Or in the Sandokai, "Walking forward in the way, you draw no nearer progress no farther".

                            But even though we don't gain anything, that dropping of gain and loss, that ability to be pulled by thoughts, but then to "VOOMP" back again over and over is something very, very special.

                            I came across a discussion on the internet this week about "how to Shikantaza" ... and much good and solid advice was given. Some folks follow the breath, some "Just Sit" in boundless spaciousness, some advised this or that on the posture and letting thoughts go. All wise and good, and talk of posture, focus


                            If you are not practicing to gain enlightenment. If this life, here and now is Nirvana. If all of the ups and downs, when we are in pain, when we face death, this is paradise. That is a very, very special way of living. It's like jumping into life without regret. And feeling like shit, but not worrying about feeling like shit. Allowing it, but still having that underlying stillness that it's ok; it's ok to not be ok.

                            Gassho,

                            Risho
                            -sattoday
                            Wonderful answer Risho, thank you. =)

                            Gassho
                            Shingen

                            #sattoday

                            Comment

                            • Jiken
                              Member
                              • Jan 2011
                              • 753

                              #15
                              Well said.

                              Gassho

                              Jiken


                              Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

                              Comment

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