No Water, No Moon

[Jundo]

Wonderful answer Risho, thank you. =)

Gassho
Shingen

#sattoday

I concur. Ya know, folks have the idea that in Zen, one is not supposed to offer too clear explanation of these things. The reason is to keep us from getting too hung up on the idea, and the intellectual & philosophical understanding alone ... as opposed to the understanding down to the bones where to bucket drops out. That is wise.

However, sometimes a clear explanation is clearly wonderful too. Lovely and also wise. Without a bucket filled with clear water, we would thirst for the moon. Thank you Risho.

Gassho, Jundo

SatToday

[Risho]

My question was just that my understanding was on the right track. I wouldnt have a modicum of practice without this sangha and your teaching Jundo ( yes, im getting corny )

This is going in the chant book "Without a bucket filled with clear water, we would thirst for the moon. "

Gassho

Risho
-sattoday

[Banto]

Risho thank you for writing that. I thought we were to go from turbulent water to still water and then to be the moon in the dew drop. Without the water and thus no moon sounded more like a cessation of enlightenment.
Perhaps some day these stories will make more sense to me. And perhaps not. It is all well
For now, there is sitting
Gassho
Rodney SatToday


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[Jundo]

Risho thank you for writing that. I thought we were to go from turbulent water to still water and then to be the moon in the dew drop. Without the water and thus no moon sounded more like a cessation of enlightenment.
Perhaps some day these stories will make more sense to me. And perhaps not. It is all well
For now, there is sitting
Gassho
Rodney SatToday


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I actually just came across some quotes by Yasutani Roshi on this ...

Yasutani says that the mind of a buddha “is like water that is calm, deep, and crystal clear, and upon which the ‘moon of truth’ reflects fully and perfectly.” The buddha clearly perceives the truth. “The mind of the ordinary man, on the other hand, is like murky water, constantly being churned by the gales of delusive thought and no longer able to reflect the moon of truth.” Yasutani is quick to note that “the moon nonetheless shines down upon the waves”—the truth is still there, one’s original enlightenment is still there—but the churning, muddy waters keep the ordinary being from perceiving that truth. ...

So how do we perceive the truth? “How can we fully illumine our life and personality with the moon of truth?” Yasutani answers, “We need first to purify this water, to calm the surging waves by halting the winds of discursive thought.” The winds must be stilled. “Once they abate, the waves subside, the muddiness clears, and we perceive directly that the moon of truth has never ceased shining.”

The point, however, is that the Moon is always present seen or unseen. So, I disagree with Yasutani a little if he means we must always have a perfectly still mind in order to find Buddha Mind. The Mind of Buddha is truly present in both the calm and in the murk. To the Wise Eye, All is Calm amid both motion and stillness.

Yasutani said we sometimes need to still the waters to see the Moon. Sometimes it is good to do so, so we sit letting thoughts go without stirring up, and letting the waters calm in Zazen. However, Dogen reminded us that, to the wise eye, the moon can be seen in every wave and ripple and drop of life, reflected endlessly. Right in the complexity of life, the moon is always shining.

Right when the bucket drops out in life and your pants and shoes get all wet ... Buddha.

Gassho, J

SatToday

[Banto]

Clear water reflecting the moon and moon to be seen in the ripples too make sense to me, .... Until the bottom falling out and there is no more water, clear or rippled, makes it seems like consciousness stops.
Hmmm

Moon always present though yes.
Thanks all for the discussion
Gassho
Rodney SatToday


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[Jundo]

.... makes it seems like consciousness stops.
Hmmm

Oh no. How can one appreciate the moon then!? The moon shines even for the man in the coma or coffin, but better to be awake and alive!

The bucket dropping out is simply that we get soaked to the marrow in Moonlight.

Gassho, J

SatToday

[Ongen]

one of my absolute favourite stories

Thank you Shingen

Gassho
Ongen

Sat Today

[Jishin]

I don't understand this story/koan/moon/water/bucket bs. And that's ok.

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Jakuden]

I don't understand this story/koan/moon/water/bucket bs. And that's ok.

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

Almost spit my water all over the keyboard...!! LOL!!

Gassho,
Sierra
SatToday

[CK732]

Thank you Shingen

Metta

Gassho

Clarisse Sat2Day


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[Matt]

Great story. Thanks for posting, Shingen.

For more stories with women in Zen, the book Women of the Way by Sallie Tisdale is a good one.

Gassho,
Matt
#SatToday

[Mp]

Great story. Thanks for posting, Shingen.

For more stories with women in Zen, the book Women of the Way by Sallie Tisdale is a good one.

Gassho,
Matt
#SatToday

Thanks Matt, I will have a look in that book. =)

Gassho
Shingen

#sattoday

[Hogo]

Enjoyable story, and thread.
Thank you.
Gassho
Hogo.
Sat today

[Tai Shi]

I take a lot of medicines, some to keep my life going, some to let the pain subside. For me water is the elixir of life. Every doctor, some women, say I must always have water with me. In a way, water is my friend, and in the 5th precept, I've learned that water is the substance of enlightenment because it dispels strong drink, and as I beheld this beautiful woman finding herself through a pale of water in which the moon is reflected, I believe that Jundo has observed the words of Master Dogen, that one does not really touch the other. But I know how important water is, as I think of the tides caused by the moon for the oceans out of which we all came. Elgwyn, sat today, Gassho _/|\_

[Jishin]

Hi,

I drink water when I am thirsty. But sometimes I drink green tea or diet cokes but I try to drink mostly water because I think it's better for you.

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_