Gate of Sweet Nectar

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  • Jundo
    Treeleaf Founder and Priest
    • Apr 2006
    • 40772

    #31
    Hi Faith Moon,

    I actually consider such beliefs harmful, at least looking historically at centuries of Buddhism and other religions. At best, they are placebos to give people hope (and, yes, even placebos have been shown to have true medical worth. I recognize the value of placebos, and as a former hospice volunteer I learned that, if a dying man wants a rabbits foot ... well, I give him a rabbits foot without debate. If somebody wants to pray to a volcano or a spirit, and it brings them some comfort, more power to them and I hope it brings them some peace) ...



    But there are big and little superstitious beliefs that people cling to to explain how the world works, and sometimes are willing to fight about. At the minimum, I ask myself why I would invoke magic that seems to have no validation for its actual existence based upon how we have come to understand this universe, to request the help of spirits and energies which probably do not exist outside our dreams? (I am open minded on such things existing, just skeptical to the point of disbelief. I believe that there is "more in heaven and earth than dreamt in our philosophy", but that does not mean the Bermuda Triangle or Loch Ness monster is real). In fact, I see the true wonder in understanding how the world actually seems to work (that changes in climate are being caused by industrialization and global warming, not our failure to properly sacrifice a sheep to the rain gods. Likewise, dealing with hunger and poverty is not really helped by banging a drum and shouting NOBO BO HO RI GYA RI TA RITA, and it may even distract folks from going out and actively dealing with these issues).

    The real "miracle" and "wonder" of this life is most ordinary, right before our eyes. No need for shiny "Wizard of Oz" like smoke and mirrors to make it more so. (Dogen, like a lot of old Zen masters, was once asked if he could levitate and all the rest. He responded that the real "miraculous powers" of a Zen fellow is to drink tea, scratch one's nose, chop wood and fetch water).

    At worst and most extreme, such superstitious beliefs in religion have been reasons over the last few thousand years for us to blow each other up (though people have done so in the name of other "secular religions" we call nationalism, communism and such ... ) or do things like this to themselves ...

    Kentucky Snake Handler Bit During Church Service Refuses Medical Treatment and Dies


    In Child Deaths, a Test for Christian Science


    When my own child has been sick, I have prayed, danced around a fire, thrown salt for purification of evil spirits, called on Buddha and Jesus and Thor ... but mostly prayed to the doctors. I would have grabbed any rope in a crisis but, after the clouds had past, I realized that my motivations were most likely the desperation of the moment.

    I also am a big BIG fan of Bernie Glassman and his work, including the Peacemakers. I am thoroughly a supporter of engaged Buddhism and social action in general. I am just focusing on the worth of having "abracadabra" in our ceremonies.

    I do, however, see the value of having community rituals and ceremonies, even if much of the (seeming) fantasy and snake oil is removed. I was reading recently that even some atheist groups are finding the value of certain ceremony and ritual ...

    Suzanne Moore: To move many away from religion, atheism has to weave itself into the social fabric and shed its image of dour grumpiness


    Gassho, Jundo

    SatToday

    PS - I do not mean to imply that one need over-rely on "science" either. An old thread from this forum ...

    Let me mention too that a faith in science to excess, whereby "only" science has the answers and all of life ... love, poetry, beauty ... can be reduced to a test tube or an equation ... can also be dangerous, also a kind of ignorance by "scientism". DNA and Darwin, protons and quarks, carbon and oxygen ... while amazing and wondrous, each holding the building blocks of reality ... can also miss the "Big Picture" if we focus too much on those alone. Furthermore, I believe that many of our most accepted beliefs today will someday be chuckled at by people of the future, much as we now chuckle at the beliefs of people of the 17th century (22nd Century husband talking to wife: "Martha, can you believe that those naive people 100 years ago still believed in gravity?" )
    Last edited by Jundo; 10-17-2015, 06:53 PM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

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    • Myosha
      Member
      • Mar 2013
      • 2974

      #32
      Hello,

      Distinctions . . . what a concept!

      Letting ritual remove ego,

      Putting the "fun" back in 'funereal': *thumbs up*


      Gassho
      Myosha sat today
      Last edited by Myosha; 10-17-2015, 06:41 PM.
      "Recognize suffering, remove suffering." - Shakyamuni Buddha when asked, "Uhm . . .what?"

      Comment

      • FaithMoon
        Member
        • Jul 2015
        • 112

        #33
        desperation of the moment
        I think this is the hungry ghost. As I understand the Gate, the chants invite the desperation of the moment into the room. "Just chanting" is another miraculous power of the zen fellow.

        Faith-Moon
        sat today
        sat today!

        Comment

        • Jundo
          Treeleaf Founder and Priest
          • Apr 2006
          • 40772

          #34
          Originally posted by FaithMoon
          I think this is the hungry ghost. As I understand the Gate, the chants invite the desperation of the moment into the room. "Just chanting" is another miraculous power of the zen fellow.

          Faith-Moon
          sat today
          Well, I will pray to Thor and knock on wood that it is so. When sacrificing a goat to the volcano, just sacrifice a goat to the volcano.

          Gassho, J

          SatToday
          ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

          Comment

          • Rich
            Member
            • Apr 2009
            • 2614

            #35
            Originally posted by Jundo
            Hi Faith Moon,

            The real "miracle" and "wonder" of this life is most ordinary, right before our eyes. No need for shiny "Wizard of Oz" like smoke and mirrors to make it more so. (Dogen, like a lot of old Zen masters, was once asked if he could levitate and all the rest. He responded that the real "miraculous powers" of a Zen fellow is to drink tea, scratch one's nose, chop wood and fetch water).

            ...

            Thanks for making that clear.

            Haven't done much lately but I enjoy chanting. Would like to see more of the dancing and jumping for joy that I. Glimpsed in the video. liked the drums and would add some brass and strings. also liked the way some of their chanting was more like singing.

            I'm not opposed to reverence and seriousness but expressing joy is important.

            SAT today
            _/_
            Rich
            MUHYO
            無 (MU, Emptiness) and 氷 (HYO, Ice) ... Emptiness Ice ...

            https://instagram.com/notmovingmind

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