Gate of Sweet Nectar

[Jundo]

Just one query - what is it that individuals place on their foreheads when they approach the alter ?

Gassho

Willow

sat today

Hi Willow,

Do you mean, for example, at the 8:15 mark? He is simply raising the powdered incense up before sprinkling it on the burner (a coal which would be burning atop the sandy part below). Some folks touch the forehead, others do not. It is usually explained as simply a gesture of respect and reverence in the offering (we also raise Sutra books to eye level before opening and after closing), but there are always some esoteric interpretations that somebody, sometime, will add to such rituals.

Gassho, J

[Jinyo]

Yes - thank you Jundo, I couldn't quite see behind the candle what they were touching.

Gassho

Willow

sat today

[FaithMoon]

Thanks Kokuu for initiating this conversation. The celebration of feeding the hungry ghosts has ancient roots. In this time and place, Bernie and the Zen Peacemakers have been thinking deeply on questions like: When the hungry ghost appears, what do you feed it? It's an ongoing investigation!

Faith-Moon
sat today

[Jundo]

Maybe we can update this ceremony somehow? Let it be more clearly focused front and center on the hungry mouths in this earthly world, and the "hungry ghosts" in each of us, and less on hocus-pocus and hidden hell realms and "OM BO HO TEI RI GYA TA RI TA TA"? I don't care to fight human beings allowing poverty and deprivation in the world by invoking mysterious energies and spirits.

Actually, that is something that I have tried to do with many of the ceremonies we have adopted and conducted here at Treeleaf, from Jukai to our upcoming "Hossenshiki Dharma Combat Ceremony" ... honoring traditional elements, stripping away much abracadabra and superstition, keeping the rituals as vital and relevant. I do know the power and community/awareness building role of some ceremony and ritual.

Shall we build some kind of ceremony based on this Gate for greed, poverty and hunger? It could become a cornerstone for our Engaged and Charitable Projects program.

Gassho, J

SatToday

[Kokuu]

Shall we build some kind of ceremony based on this Gate for greed, poverty and hunger? It could become a cornerstone for our Engaged and Charitable Projects program.

I would certainly really like that, Jundo. Maybe it could be done at the beginning of each two week period of global action.

Personally I find that rituals like this inspire me into action just as the metta verses may well not do anything physical to change suffering but have a noticeable impact on my state of mind.

Faith, I remember in my Tibetan days we used to take out offerings for hungry ghosts as part of the meal and think this is also the same with Oryoki practice. I really appreciate Bernie's deep thinking on this too.

Gassho
Kokuu
#sattoday

[Shugen]

I would like that also Jundo.

Gassho,

Shugen

#sattoday


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Byokan]

Hi All.

This ceremony, as far as I can tell, seems to have originally been about about calling forth, communicating with, and pacifying spirits of dead people who do not rest in peace. I see no need to adapt it to a literal re-interpretation about hungry living people. If we want to help the hungry we can just do that, can't we, and make a new ritual that pleases us if we wish. I see no need to try to twist and manipulate a clearly religious ritual concerned with the afterlife into something completely different. I would leave this ritual for those who wish to appease hungry ghosts. It is a beautiful ritual as it is. If we are doing something else, we can make a new ritual for what we are doing.

It seems that Roshi Bernie and Roshi Joan have re-styled this ritual to make it about inclusion: “This chant calls out to all those who are lost and left behind, those who hunger and thirst, including those parts of ourselves that we think of as insufficient and lacking.” "May we always have the courage to bear witness; To see ourself as Other and Other as ourself."

This is beautiful and admirable but pretty far from the original I think. Scraps of the original remain in addressing “countless spiritual beings,” “those in the lower realms of existence,” and “the harmful spirits who hinder the way.” The invitation for the Manifestation of All the Gods and Demons remains, as does the Dharani of Hell Crushing and Hungry Spirit Throat Opening.

I guess what I’m saying is why struggle to adapt all that when we can just make a much simpler movement to build a new ceremony that reflects this Sangha and Jundo’s teachings? Why change hungry ghosts into hungry living people, demons into psychological archetypes? It’s like fake food. I don’t like fake food. Instead of eating soy-based-extruded-triticale-plant-fiber-amino-enriched-fake-hamburger-product, why not eat a plate of delicious sauteed veggies instead? Substitutions rarely satisfy. Simple and straightforward appeals to me.

In the style we always use, we could offer incense, have a few bells, recite some words that have meaning for us. I know many of us were touched deeply when we encountered the Gate Of Sweet Nectar song/chant that was sung at the Washington retreat last year:

Calling out to Hungry Hearts,
Everywhere through endless time,
You who wander, you who thirst,
I offer you this Bodhi Mind.

Calling out to hungry spirits,
Everywhere through endless time,
Calling out to hungry hearts,
All the lost and left behind.

Gather round and share this meal.
Your joy and sorrow
I make them mine.

People need and desire ritual to mark the importance of things, to highlight a feeling of reverence, to inspire, motivate, and strengthen community, etc. We can build our own ceremonies without the need to adapt things in a convoluted way. I think we should!

Gassho
raindrop
sat today

p.s. By the way, I don’t believe in ghosts, hells, or demons, but that doesn’t mean they don’t exist. I’ve met many who say they have first-hand experience of these things, and I can’t discount that. Energies may seem mysterious only because we don’t understand them yet. I think calling these things “ignorant,” even in quotation marks, or superstitious or irrelevant, is unnecessary. No need to discount the beliefs of others, just focus on what you do believe and build from there. The idea that taking the parts we agree with and leaving the parts we don’t is an “upgrade,” seems a little self-congratulatory to me, a bit of setting oneself higher. We don’t always need to tear down the old to build the new. I’d be sad if someone who is diligently practicing The Way might feel ignorant or sidelined because they honestly feel that their dead grampa spoke to them in a moment of need, or that they perceive unseen energy flowing, or some similar experience.

[Jundo]

p.s. By the way, I don’t believe in ghosts, hells, or demons, but that doesn’t mean they don’t exist. I’ve met many who say they have first-hand experience of these things, and I can’t discount that. Energies may seem mysterious only because we don’t understand them yet. I think calling these things “ignorant,” even in quotation marks, or superstitious or irrelevant, is unnecessary. No need to discount the beliefs of others, just focus on what you do believe and build from there. The idea that taking the parts we agree with and leaving the parts we don’t is an “upgrade,” seems a little self-congratulatory to me, a bit of setting oneself higher. We don’t always need to tear down the old to build the new. I’d be sad if someone who is diligently practicing The Way might feel ignorant or sidelined because they honestly feel that their dead grampa spoke to them in a moment of need, or that they perceive unseen energy flowing, or some similar experience.

Yes, maybe my way of putting that part was too harsh. I will tone it down somewhat. Thank you, Lisa.

Gassho, Jundo

SatToday

[Byokan]

Yes, maybe my way of putting that part was too harsh. I will tone it down somewhat. Thank you, Lisa.

Gassho, Jundo

SatToday

Jundo,

I beg your pardon, Teacher, I am only pointing to the language. I know there is no harsh intent behind those words.

deep bows,
Lisa
sat today

[FaithMoon]

Fascinating what this brings up for us. I'm all for creating rituals. The process of doing so can only clarify our intentions. What I get from the peacemaker ceremony is that nothing is excluded. Faith_Moon

https://youtu.be/bLx0Dtuxj-k

Also see http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bernie..._b_644860.html

[martyrob]

Hi Lisa,


I really like and respect your thoughts on developing a new ritual rather than co-opting an old one. It makes sense and it fits in with Jundo's aspiration to strip out much of the 'abracadabra' surrounding some old rituals.
While I wouldn't want to belittle anyone for holding supernatural beliefs, I really appreciate Jundo's forthright style on this matter. (Jundo has a forthright style on many matters, which, the more I hang out here, the more I appreciate and admire). It is his commitment to reworking many of the traditions and teachings to make them appropriate for a modern, Western context that make his teachings relevant and precious and was one of the main the reasons I was attracted to this Sangha. Moreover, I would say that this aspiration is one of the most important challenges in modern Buddhism if it is to become a vital force for change rather than descending into a cult.
I'm sure, in a hundred years time Buddhism, if it survives in the West, will have a set of rituals and teachings far removed from those practised now and much of its Asian residue unrecognisable – for good or ill.
The ceremony left me bit cold, however I was watching it on 'YouTube'. It's definitely a kind of' you had to be there' event. Although I've got an old English, lefty aversion to any thing that smacks of 'Church'. However, I have no end of respect for Bernie Glassman and his work with the homeless. I believe this commitment to social engagement and re-working the teachings is the cutting edge of current Buddhist thinking, and I think this Sangha is right there in the forefront of that movement. So, I feel very privileged – in a humble, Buddhist sense, of course!



Wishing you all well.


Martyn


Sat today.

[Rich]

Did Buddha do any rituals? What is the difference between a ceremony and a ritual?

I'm a little skeptical about this because rituals dominated primitive religions.

What about adding some music?

SAT today

[Jundo]

Jundo,

I beg your pardon, Teacher, I am only pointing to the language. I know there is no harsh intent behind those words.

deep bows,
Lisa
sat today

Oh no, you were right. No pardon to beg. I do get on my soap box when it comes to this issue of (what may be) superstition and soothsaying in Buddhism. I probably will be heard to do so from time to time.

Kind of an old tradition in the Buddhist world, but one person's superstition is another person's sacred rite.

Gassho, J

SatToday

[Kyonin]

Shall we build some kind of ceremony based on this Gate for greed, poverty and hunger? It could become a cornerstone for our Engaged and Charitable Projects program.

Please count me in for this.

I also think we should maintain the woowoo factor to a personal level, but official Treeleaf ceremonies are a good way to unite the sangha and to keep tradition going. And of course there's the psychological effect. Ceremonies makes us aware of our practice and service.

So, I say AYE!

Gassho,

Kyonin
#SatToday

[FaithMoon]

I don’t want to be in the position of defending certain types of chanting or ceremony. I am simply a long time practitioner who has no problem with ceremonies, and I participate in them with an open heart/mind. I’m also not a Bernie defender, but I have over the years grown to appreciate the Zen Peacemaker’s approach to adapting old forms to reflect their mission. An extraordinary level of service and contemplation over many years is behind what you see on the YouTube video.


I’ve scratched my head as to why it might be necessary to repeatedly call out dhirani (sp?), spells, etc. as…what? Harmful? I just can’t imagine anyone in this sangha needing to be steered away from that. Has this seriously been an issue for any of your students, Jundo?


To consider:
When your child is sick or in danger and there is nothing else you can do, do you pray; recite a favorite chant? What’s that about? Is it harmful?

Faith-Moon
sat today