Eyes, focus and sleep

[Sim175]

Hello everyone,

I've been consistently having trouble keeping my eyes focused on the floor in front of me during zazen. Although I understand I'm supposed to let go of judgments and not fight against thoughts or emotions that crop up, I definitely feel like I settle down much better when my eyes manage that gentle focus; I also get out of zazen much more centered and at peace. Understandably, it's been a goal for me to keep getting that gentle focus. When that doesn't happen, for most of my 20 minutes zazen, my eyes either get all tense trying to achieve focus but failing, or my vision just keeps getting blurry.

I generally sit around 8-9 PM, so I'm thinking it's either poor lighting or I'm getting sleepy.

Anybody else has this problem, and what do you do about it? Should I try sitting during the middle of the day, or just accept that my eyes just won't be focused on a given day?



Simon
Sat today.

[Jundo]

Hi Simon,

It may be necessary for you just to relax your concern with this, not "pay it no never mind" so much. It is a bit like, if during Zazen, I focus on the tip of my nose it starts to itch. If I forget my nose, no itch.

As I usually say when this subject comes up, I personally am not staring fixedly at a "point" or a dot ... nor am I staring so unfocused that my eyes go blurry. I describe it as "staring at everything and nothing in particular". My eyes take in the room or the floor or wall quiet naturally, but I do not latch onto anything particular I am seeing. "Staring wide eyed into space" may be a good description. Maybe my focus just wanders from point to point to point quite naturally, resting where they rest, on this or that, then moving on when they move on.

I do not see particular harm in staring at a fixed spot the whole time, except that it is a little unnatural. Even when facing the wall, I do not fixate like glue on a single spot.

Let me just say that, in our Shikantaza way with the eyes about 1/3 open, there should be nothing particularly unusual or out of focus about the vision. It is seeing normally, but just not thinking about and judging what one is seeing. Otherwise, nothing usually particularly strange about the vision.

Monks in monasteries would sometimes sit in sunlight during the day, weak candlelit rooms at night, so I don't think that is the problem.

If you are doing something to excess (such as forcing the eyes to fixedly stare, failing to naturally blink, allowing them to really go out of focus or the like) then you are kinda "trying to hard". It is rather like riding a bike: If you relax, it is easy. If you try to hard, you lose your balance and fall.

Gassho, J

What a room looks like before Zazen ...



What the room looks like during Zazen (but just not thinking particularly thoughts like "ugly sofa, nice chair, wish I were outside, need to clean this dirty floor ... "



SatToday

[Joyo]

I had very similar experiences when I first started sitting. I agree with Jundo here. I found it was a lot like focusing on blinking my eyes, if I think about it I will blink unnaturally. But if I just let it go, it happens all on it's own.

Gassho,
Joyo
sat today

[Risho]

Yes!! Blurry eyes! I'm not the only one. Lol. This doesnt happen to me much now but it used to when i was first sitting. I think I just got mire used to it, mire relaxed. It just sort of stopped being a problem.

Gassho

Risho
-sattoday

Ps i sit facing a wall, well more of a door; my gaze usually rests on the door not the floor

[Sim175]

Thank you very much, Jundo and Joyo.

I will try to relax a bit more tomorrow!



Simon
Sat today.

[Joyo]

Thank you very much, Jundo and Joyo.

I will try to relax a bit more tomorrow!



Simon
Sat today.

Just so you know, this didn't go away for me right away. It kind of went away, then came back, until I learned to just relax and let it go

Gassho,
Joyo
sat today

[Jundo]

Learning to relax and let it go ... a key part of all of Shikantaza ...

Gassho, J

SatToday

[Mp]

Just so you know, this didn't go away for me right away. It kind of went away, then came back, until I learned to just relax and let it go

Gassho,
Joyo
sat today

Yup, good point Joyo, thank you. Patience is key. =)

Gassho
Shingen

#sattoday

[Byrne]

All kinds of things happen with my eyes. They used to wander around, but now they stay still. I hallucinate a lot while sitting due to a neurological condition. I suggest you not worry about it provided it isn't harming you.

Gassho

Sat Today

[delphizealot]

Personally, I have a lot of blurriness when sitting zazen. Of course, my vision is getting worse as I get older, so I have a lot of blurriness when not sitting zazen. Maybe I just notice it more when I'm trying not to notice anything in particular? Blurry vision, blurry mind, focused or unfocused, eventually it settles. Or it doesn't. Either way, just sitting.

Maybe you're like me and need glasses, but just haven't noticed it day-to-day?

-Dan
Will sit now

[Kyonin]

Hi Simon,

Blurry eyes are common for me, but I take it as part of the experience. Sometimes they are blurry, sometimes watery and sometimes sleepy. But whatever it is, just sit with what is and just try to see normal with no particular point of interest.

The more you sit, the less concerned about this you'll be.

Gassho

Kyonin
#SatToday

[tlap]

I have found that I have to wear a different pair of glasses when I sit. The downward gaze puts my vision through the reading portion of my everyday glasses, and that can be quite blurry and eventually painful when there is nothing in my view that is at reading distance. I wear a pair of distance-only glasses when I sit. You did not mention whether you wear glasses or not, so this may not be relevant.

Gassho

trish
sat today

[Jundo]

I have found that I have to wear a different pair of glasses when I sit. The downward gaze puts my vision through the reading portion of my everyday glasses, and that can be quite blurry and eventually painful when there is nothing in my view that is at reading distance. I wear a pair of distance-only glasses when I sit. You did not mention whether you wear glasses or not, so this may not be relevant.

Gassho

trish
sat today

Hi Trish,

Sometimes I wear my glasses, sometimes I take them off.

The most important aspect is to pay those glasses "no nevermind" whether on or off. In Zen, we drop all thoughts of dualities ... like on vs. off!

The great Kodo Sawaki Roshi (and before anyone asks, his eyes are about 1/3 open) ...



Gassho, J

SatToday

[Matt]

It is rather like riding a bike: If you relax, it is easy. If you try to hard, you lose your balance and fall.

That is a great metaphor. Deep bows.

Gassho,
Matt
#SatToday

[Sim175]

Thank you everyone for your words, I'll re-read before sitting today... I wanted to answer yesterday but didn't have time to sit, and no sitting, no posting

I don't wear glasses, I had laser surgery a couple of years ago, so I have perfect vision.
I'll write a little more once I've sat.

Simon