When something unexpected pops up during sitting

[Myogan]

Tonight I sat down for evening meditation with no problems until, out of the blue a memory of a time when I embarrassed myself in Junior high bubbled to the surface. I have not thought about that for years, and I don't know how the memory surfaced.


However it shocked me out of my breathing pattern and could not regain it. I've had this happen before twice but in both those times it was a realization of something that must have bothered me at some time, because in those episodes afterwards I felt peace with that realization. My local dharma teacher calls the "Aha" moments of meditation.


This time I was left feeling like that 13 year old kid I was, embarrassed, angry, sad, and alone. And I couldn't find the rhythm of my breath to finish the last 6 minutes. Thinking I might need to forgive that 13 year old I did the Metta chant thinking of that part of me for the first time through the chant.


It didn't completely help but I feel it was a step in the right direction. That time wasn't the only time I have felt like that in the past (I was as I am, equal parts naive, arrogant, introverted) but having the memory come out of the blue was just plain weird.

So, only three times in six years doesn't sound so bad, but is it common that an aha moment leads in a good realization that can be productive or does it often just leads to more questions?

suggestion and observations are welcome.
I, of course will continue to sit.

(definitely) Sat today

[Jundo]

Hi Mark,

The usual guidance on such events ...

In Zen Practice, we have to be careful of certain games the mind will play during Zazen once in awhile ... including unusual visual and auditory sensations, brief periods of paranoia or panic, memories arising from deep down in our subconscious. We are not used to the stillness and quiet of Zazen, and it lets certain memories, emotions, fears and like psychological states rise to the surface ... or allows some things (spots in our eyes that are always there even though not usually noticed, background sounds) to be noticed that are usually blocked out by all the noise and busyness in our heads, senses and around us.

Observe, allow, let it go. If such events do not repeat so often, I would not worry.

We learn from our past, allow, accept, make amends (when something requiring so) ... yes, learn something from them ... forgive as one can, move on. A recent thread on that.

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?13742-Guilt&p=160465&viewfull=1#post160465

I think most of us can and should forgive our "junior high school" 13 year old selves! Oh, what a pimply faced little ass I was then sometimes!

Of course, if it is something very traumatic like abuse (I recall an old car accident sometimes, for example), and it really brings up scars, you may want to talk with someone.

I link to my usual long posting on this and other so-called "Makyo" mind tricks during Zazen ...

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?12641-Faces-in-the-carpet&p=134634&viewfull=1#post134634

By the way, you write "shocked me out of my breathing pattern and could not regain it." Hmmm. In Shikantaza as we usually recommend around here one does not try to do anything unusual with the breath, or to maintain any particular rhythm. More on that here ...

We do not try to do anything artificial with the breath, and just let “long breaths be long, and short breaths be short,” the breath finding its natural rhythm. Pay the breath no mind, give it no thought, and even (as Master Dogen advises) drop all thought of “long” or “short”! In doing so, as we calm, the breath will calm as well … finding a natural rhythm.

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?7695-Sit-a-Long-with-Jundo-Zazen-for-Beginners-%28Part-XI%29

Gassho, Jundo

SatToday

[Jundo]

By the way, I still cannot forgive this ... although nice hair!

Always a trend setter, I was way into the whole aviator glasses-blue clip-on bow tie thing before they were even cool!



The awkward years, to say the least.

Young Jundo was kinda cute, if I may say so myself.

Gassho, J

[Myogan]

When something unexpected pops up during sitting

By the way, I still cannot forgive this ... although nice hair

Thanks, it's a combination of my dad's family widow's peak and my mother's family male pattern baldness. It's either that or all the hair decided to move south.

perhaps the phrase shouldn't be "shocked out of my breathing pattern" but "could not find an object of meditation". Normally it is encouraged to observe your breath, where the local meditation group is, we have trains pass 1-3 times during sittings and it is encouraged rather to make the train's noises potentially be a distraction (it runs 30 feet from us), make it an object of meditation.

in the two previous times of realization I was able to take an aspect of that realization and make it the object of meditation. The first could be viewed as an aspect to find dependent origination, so I used that as my object. The second time it was a personal realization of the second noble truth, so that not only was it simple to find an object of meditation. (Even wrote a simple poem about it) But this time when I tried to find something it was like walking on oiled glass, I just couldn't find a stable base.

. . And as I just wrote this I realized the answer to my question could have been to change the location of that base. I could have switched to kinhin or samu and let the body lead the mind.

A most sincere Gassho

[Ishin]

Hello Marc

I am a lay practitioner, but I do have some experience with the kind of thing you are describing. As far as shikantaza goes, and anyone can correct me if I am misguided here, but I believe, the practice is to "drop everything". Many thoughts and emotions, some powerful as you describe can come up during sitting. The act of being still can often bring up things that are buried, but that of course is not the purpose. If, as Jundo, says these kinds of things keep happening it might be useful to get some counseling, but often these are merely suppressed emotions that are releasing. Experiencing "aha" moments might be useful in our personal development but this is not the point of practice in zen.

Just sitting, not analyzing. As Suzuki says, "Don't invite your thoughts in for tea."

Gassho
Ishin

Sat Today

[Jundo]

Hi Marc,

I believe you mentioned that you sit with a group in the Kwan Um Tradition? What you describe sounds as if it may be a very wonderful flavor of meditation, but seems quite unlike "Just Sitting" Shikantaza as we sit here.

Please do go through our "we're all always beginners" series when you can ...

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?63-A-SERIES-OF-TALKS-FOR-NEW-FOLKS

... and these other little comments on Shikantaza ...

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?66-VITAL-POINTS-of-SHIKANTAZA-ZAZEN

In an nutshell, it is fine to lightly follow the breath in some flavors of Shikantaza, although I encourage "open, spacious awareness" focused on everything and anything, and nothing in particular. However, beyond that, Shikantaza is a form of sitting in which the greatest realizations arise from abandoning the chase after any realizations at all. Sounds counter-intuitive, but much of Zen Buddhism sometimes is so. We are not trying to find dependent origination or the Noble Truths, and thus one finds such in one's bones.

I very much agree with not turning so-called "distractions" into distractions. At our Zendo in Tsukuba, we sometimes have birds singing, but also sometimes trucks passing or military helicopters. I teach folks "birds sing as just birds, trucks and helicopters just sing as trucks and helicopters" ... each is just what it is when one does not judge, so don't pay no nevermind.

So, sounds a bit like two rather different approaches.

Gassho, Jundo

SatToday

[Entai]

Heart pumps blood, stomach digests food, brain makes thoughts. I used to get pretty worked up about some of the thoughts that pop up. Now I try to see them as similar to dreams. The brain is just doing its thing, but I'm noticing it more clearly. I don't try to figure out my dreams. However, if something that seems important shows up, I try to give it some attention when I'm done sitting.... emphasis on "try".

Gassho, Entai
#SatToday

[Mp]

Hello Marc,

I heard a teachings once that went like this: "When I breathe, thoughts come. When I breathe, thoughts go away. Just continue to breathe." =)

Gassho
Shingen

#sattoday

[Rich]

If someone gave me a dollar for every embarrassing memory that has popped up over the years, I would be hanging out with Warren Buffett. Just drop it or even better smile and laugh at it. If you take yourself too seriously the cosmic joke is on you.

SAT today

[Myogan]

Hello Marc,

I heard a teachings once that went like this: "When I breathe, thoughts come. When I breathe, thoughts go away. Just continue to breathe." =)

Gassho
Shingen

#sattoday

That is what I was trying to express, thank you. We do just sit, observing the breath only when the monkey mind starts getting away from us.

[Jundo]

[Joyo]

If someone gave me a dollar for every embarrassing memory that has popped up over the years, I would be hanging out with Warren Buffett. Just drop it or even better smile and laugh at it. If you take yourself too seriously the cosmic joke is on you.

SAT today

You too, hey. Any time my ego may get in the way, I have a long, long list of humbling, embarrassing memories to help remind me that I'm a work in progress. =)

All the best to you Marc, lots of good advice posted here. Thanks for taking the time to ask the question, good stuff to learn and practice.

Gassho,
Joyo
sat today

[seeker242]

suggestion and observations are welcome.
I, of course will continue to sit.

(definitely) Sat today

I think it's quite normal for random crazy things to appear out of the blue. Although, what I find interesting is that if you don't dwell on them, they always also disappear. If you do dwell on them, well then they don't so much. So it seems to me that the thing appearing is not the problem or issue, but the dwelling on the appearance is the only thing that may cause the "problem". But, if you don't dwell on dwelling, then even dwelling isn't so much of a problem.

[Byokan]

Hi All,

ok, it's driving me crazy, I cannot see the photos Jundo posted, on mac or on kindle. Is it just me and wonky forest internet?

Gassho
Lisa
sat today

[Jinyo]

Me neither Lisa - and I am curious

Gassho

Willow

sat today