What makes Zen..'Zen'?

[Jishin]

Your bald heal is so shinny I can't see when I look at you.

Gassho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Kaishin]

Hey Jundo!

I guess I am asking this as I have become aware of the potential for there being LOTS of ego involved in our (ones) practice - albeit extremely subtley. Like tradition, colour of robes, shape of Buddha statue etc....not sure where I am going with this but there's a thorn there somewhere

What do you mean by there being lots of ego involved? Do you mean an attitude of "my practice is better than your practice"?

-satToday

[dharmasponge]

What do you mean by there being lots of ego involved? Do you mean an attitude of "my practice is better than your practice"?

-satToday

No, I mean the ego that thinks 'I' and a Zen practitioner about to practice Shikantaza.

[dharmasponge]

Your bald heal is so shinny I can't see when I look at you.

Gassho, Jishin, _/st\_

Alrighty, well....I'll be sure to bear that in MIND if I am asked.

This was a sort of a joint question that came out of a discussion with some friends - not sure they'll be able to assimilate your responses.

The general consensus of answers seems to be 'I don't know'....which is as good an answer as any I guess.

Thanks!

[Jishin]

Alrighty, well....I'll be sure to bear that in MIND if I am asked.

This was a sort of a joint question that came out of a discussion with some friends - not sure they'll be able to assimilate your responses.

The general consensus of answers seems to be 'I don't know'....which is as good an answer as any I guess.

Thanks!

Hi Tony,

The "I don't know" that is talked about here is not the "I don't know" that is talked about there. The "I don't know" answer given here I think is the all inclusive one. The one that swallows everything (including itself), the one that makes Zen Zen and not Zen at once.

Just my 2 cents...

Gassho, Jishin, SatToday

[Risho]

I don't know; we read texts written by Zen teachers, we practice traditions associated with Zen practice. I personally sit in my pajamas; I'm not huge on esoteric ritual, etc (which I know we are very lightweight here on) but I'll chant the bodhisattva vows (from our 6th ancestor in Zen) and chant the verse of atonement, the heart sutra ( a famous mahayana sutra chanted frequently in zen).

So I think a lot of the "things" done together make this zen, but separated by themselves maybe not so much... sort of like the skandhas or a person or whatever multi-faceted thing we are talking about. If you break something down, by itself it is something, then together it makes something else. I think Zen is such a large practice that it's hard to nail down, but it does come from zazen, the core of the practice.

So I guess in one sense zazen is the core of zen, but if that were it, then I wouldn't agree either. I mean there is so much more, practicing the precepts, the eightfold path (not different from the precepts), study, etc etc. So each thing, on its own can be zen, but together they are zen as well. You could say that in zen practice we study zen texts, but also studying history or math could also be zen practice from another perspective.

I think an important point is that you will not get a black and white definition because the most important part is the heart of the practitioner, their intent, their actual practice. So there are a lot of things together that make zen, zen. And what gets crazy for me at least, is that we may all have a consistent definition of zen as a group, a society, a sangha, but we'll also have a very personal idea of zen. In any case, those are ideas, and it's the practice that's at the core.

Gassho,

Risho
-sattoday

[Kaishin]

No, I mean the ego that thinks 'I' and a Zen practitioner about to practice Shikantaza.

Well, I think it's just like Jundo usually says, we have to wear something, so might as well be what our teachers wore, and their teachers, and so on. Same for any of the practices. I just happened to find a home here, so that's what I do. Could've been I stumbled into a Kadampa or Vietnamese center, and I would have adopted different practices. But I didn't.

-satToday

[Luciana]

L.

sat2day

[Rich]

Hi everyone,

I've been lurking as ever but have a question

When we sit, and let go....of everything, what makes the practice specifically a 'Zen' practice?

Or is it Zen up to the cushion then when sitting does the 'Zen(ness)' go too?

Thanks in advance!

Tony...



Sat Today

I think what distinguishes Zen is the emphasis on the direct experience of awareness of just this right now.

All the mind games have to go.
Enjoy the moment.
And practice is all the time.


SAT today

[RichardH]

Zen... the Zen taught here, is a form of the Buddhadharma that is very straightforward and direct. It comes straight from the heartwood of the Bodhi Tree, because in "just sitting" are the Four Noble Truths, the Eightfold path, dependent origination, and so forth. All right here. IMHO.

Gassho
Daizan

sat today

[Kaishin]

I think what distinguishes Zen is the emphasis on the direct experience of awareness of just this right now.

All the mind games have to go.
Enjoy the moment.
And practice is all the time.

Zen... the Zen taught here, is a form of the Buddhadharma that is very straightforward and direct. It comes straight from the heartwood of the Bodhi Tree, because in "just sitting" are the Four Noble Truths, the Eightfold path, dependent origination, and so forth. All right here. IMHO.

[Sekishi]

Ok....what makes you a 'Zen' Buddhist? Just sitting? Thats not unique to 'Zen'. Is it the 'Soto(ness)'? If so what is that and what distinguishes it from anything else?

Must we BE something? I feel so much of practice (for me) is letting go of "being", and going forth with "doing".

I'm so weary of trying to maintain being A Generation X Father and Husband Computer Scientist Soto Zen Buddhist Musician in Rural America. It is exhausting.

Sitting, bowing, chanting, doing chores as required, hugging, laughing, crying. They all come and go, naturally, contingent on causes and conditions. The forms (of bows and chants) come down from others who call themselves "the Soto sect", but they live through enactment. I sit and the sitting me's. I bow, and the bowing me's.

I hope that doesn't sound smarmy, it is just like, opinioning man. ^_^

Gassho,
Sekishi
Sat and bowed and chanted and did chores today.

[Myosha]

When we sit, and let go. . .of everything, what makes the practice specifically a 'Zen' practice?


Sat Today

Hello,

Show this "we" . . . .

Distinctions are good fun.


Gassho
Myosha sat today

[Sekishi]

Show this "we" . . . .

"The oak tree in the garden!"
-- Joshu



Gassho,
Sekishi
#sattoday

[Byokan]

...When we sit, and let go....of everything, what makes the practice specifically a 'Zen' practice?

...I guess I am asking this as I have become aware of the potential for there being LOTS of ego involved in our (ones) practice - albeit extremely subtley. Like tradition, colour of robes, shape of Buddha statue etc....not sure where I am going with this but there's a thorn there somewhere

Hi Tony,

Maybe the thorn is “Zen”. It’s really hard to define What Zen Is, but we recognize it when we encounter it. I think maybe that’s because, although it is real, there is no thing that exists that is Zen. We have the same trouble with other big concepts (ideas, forces, processes) like love, honor, time, gravity, etc.

The label “Zen” is a word or an idea that we use to help each other understand. There is a path of practice that is called Zen. There’s a feeling and a flavor that we call Zen. But there is no specific Zen Reality or Zen Truth that is separate from some other reality or truth.

When we sit, and let go of everything, we also receive everything. Actually it is beyond even the distinction of letting go and receiving. We sit in actualization of what is. This is not a Zen experience, it is a human experience. No, not even specifically human, just a here-and-now experience. Not even here and now, but everywhere and everywhen. Just this, eternal flow, infinite stillness.

Don’t be distracted by "Zen".

I really like the quote that John shared, from the Bloodstream Sermon. It comes pretty close, for me.

Gassho
Lisa
sat today

p.s. An apple is of course also an orange, and an orange is an aardvark, and I am he as you are he and you are me and we are all together. Still, I like mango’s very much, and that’s okay.