Permanence in impermanence ? Strange sensation in zazen

[Ugrok]

Hi !

This morning while sitting, at one point I felt that nothing was moving anymore, yet i could see that everything was moving ; it was quite disturbing and leaves me a bit worried. I don't know what to make of it : it was as if I could not tell anymore what was movement and what was not movement. It was like seeing things moving from a point where things did not move at all. I thought that everything was impermanent : what could be this fixated point ? I don't know if i should worry or not, ahahah, and i don't even know how to talk about it correctly, because it's not really explained with words - it's as if the thing that allows you to say "this moves" and "this does not move" was not there anymore... This came after i was feeling a bit anxious (i just moved in in a foreign city) and said to myself "just drop it and let it go all the way". Maybe it's just an offshoot of that anxiety.

Anyway, i think maybe i should not try to understand and grasp this stuff. Just needed to vent and be reassured, i guess. Sorry.

Gassho;

Ugrok, sat today in strange movement non movement

[Jishin]

Hi,

Make nothing of it. It's already here.

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Kaishin]

Just makyo - sometimes I have the sensation that I (whatever that is) am floating slightly behind and above my body. Just scenery.

-satToday

[Victor Chu]

Thanks for sharing. During meditation, I experienced strange phenomena as well, but just like everything and like wandering thoughts which rise and fall, observe and watch it passes.

Gassho
Victor

[Jundo]

Hi Ugrok,

Yes, I agree. An interesting experience, learn from it ... move on. If it does not repeat so often, I would not be concerned.

Sounds like an experience of you walking up the mountain as the mountain walks down you ... and all there is is walking, walking. You just moved to a new city, or did the city move ... or just moving, or all still?

More on "Makyo" here ...

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?12641-Faces-in-the-carpet&p=134634&viewfull=1#post134634

Gassho, Jundo

SatTodayStill (as the world turned)

[Kyonin]

Hi Ugrok,

In my own sittings, I have had very powerful experiences like many people in the world.

Sometimes I feel like I'm floating. Sometimes I get the sense that i can feel time. Sometimes I see awesome golden light shows. Sure, it's all nice and feels great, but at the end of the day life goes on.

Like Jundo says, learn from the experiences. Enjoy them. But don't grab onto them and go on about your day.

Sitting is special, but at the same time is nothing special.

Gassho,

Kyonin
#SatToday

[Rich]

The center doesn't move, all the movement is on the circumference, the periphery.

SAT today

[RichardH]

Just speaking as a painter, about painting , I have found that any still centre is a holding back. Holding back some tiny bit of "me". "Going over" to change completely, being nothing but movement, I found stillness really for the first time. The stilness and movement were not-two, and there was Joy and free-play in the creative process. Of course there was nothing to hold on to or let go of ..... just a bit of fear and contraction, .....but it changed life a lot.

Gassho
Daizan
Sat today
Painting too

[JimH]

Ugrok:

I've actually felt similar feelings...sense of detatchment, sometimes a sense of moving when I know I'm still....sometimes I've felt like my whole body is breathing. I've just kind of thought of it as my mind and body enjoying release from the constraints of what is normally expected of them , and...well...."playing" a little. I note the sensation, smile sometimes, and return back to trying to hear nothing. After sitting, I look back at these sensations and note them in a journal I'm keeping.

I think it's all part of the "reality" of the moment. As long as you're not experiencing anything that would be medically concerning (lightheadedness, dizziness, disorientation when not sitting, etc.)...you should be fine (I would think).

Gassho--

JimH
Sat today!

[Rich]

Just speaking as a painter, about painting , I have found that any still centre is a holding back. Holding back some tiny bit of "me". "Going over" to change completely, being nothing but movement, I found stillness really for the first time. The stilness and movement were not-two, and there was Joy and free-play in the creative process. Of course there was nothing to hold on to or let go of ..... just a bit of fear and contraction, .....but it changed life a lot.

Gassho
Daizan
Sat today
Painting too

That's great that you have found joy and freedom in the creative process which is really all of life moment to moment. Relaxed awareness is like a hurricane in that the center (stillness)and the periphery (movement) are not two. Thanks for clarifying.

SAT today