Short Retreat...

[dharmasponge]

hi everyone,

I have managed to get some time off work and have booked into a Theravadin Monastery for a short week long retreat. There's nothing in terms of 'Zen' retreats here in my part of the UK - apart from a Western Ch'an Fellowship one but I can't get the time off - downside of being a clinician in Psychologies

I am feeling a little anxious about practicing Shikantaza in a Theravadin Monastery - its daft I know but it feel a little, well disjointed.

Any advice on how I can get my head around this...

Tony...

Sat today

[Jundo]

Hi Tony,

I would say to sit Shikantaza or to sit as they show you. Then do so thoroughly.

Gassho, J

SatToday

[Nindo]

Hi Tony,

I would say to sit Shikantaza or to sit as they show you. Then do so thoroughly.

Gassho, J

SatToday

Hi Tony,

I've sat several Vipassana retreats, which are not exactly Theravadin, but close. When specific instruction was given for a period or part of the day, I followed along. If no instruction was given, I sat shikantaza. Just go with the flow and don't analyse. It'll be great

Gassho
Nindo
sattoday

[Kyonin]

Hi Tony!

I have gone a couple of times to sit at a Khamlungpa (Tibetan) Centre here in the city. They don't sit shikantaza, but I just do what they do and the experience has been great so far.

So, enjoy the retreat and when in Rome...

Gassho,

Kyonin
#SatToday

[Byokan]

Hi Tony,

yup, sounds like good advice from more experienced folk. Just wanted to wish you a great time at the retreat! Would love to hear your impressions when you get back, if you feel like writing about it.

Gassho
Lisa
sat today

[Mp]

I would say to sit Shikantaza or to sit as they show you. Then do so thoroughly.

Hello Tony,

I too have sat many retreats in different styles ... as Jundo also says, "When in Rome does as the Romans". Enjoy your retreat. =)

Gassho
Shingen

#sattoday

[dharmasponge]

Thanks everyone, its a self led retreat. So apart from chatting to one of the monks there won't be any formal instructions.

Sat Today

[Jundo]

I will say that I have sat Shikantaza when visiting places from Laos to Vietnam to Thailand to Tibet, and it was no problem at all. Nobody knows what happens within your head but you, so sit your sit. Other times I have sampled the local way.

Of course, as a Shikantaza teacher I will recommend you to sit Shikantaza, but I am of course completely biased. :-)

The Buddha Way is no biases right amid biases, boundless no matter the place or setting.

Gassho, Jundo

SatToday

[dharmasponge]

I will say that I have sat Shikantaza when visiting places from Laos to Vietnam to Thailand to Tibet, and it was no problem at all. Nobody knows what happens within your head but you, so sit your sit. Other times I have sampled the local way.

Of course, as a Shikantaza teacher I will recommend you to sit Shikantaza, but I am of course completely biased. :-)

The Buddha Way is no biases right amid biases, boundless no matter the place or setting.

Gassho, Jundo

SatToday

Thanks Jundo (and everyone!)

I wonder if there are actually any practices in the Theravada that are similar to Shikantaza...?

Sat Today

[Jishin]

I wonder if there are actually any practices in the Theravada that are similar to Shikantaza...?

Yes.

Gassho, Jishin, _/st\_

[dharmasponge]

Yes.

Gassho, Jishin, _/st\_

Like?

[Jundo]

Hi Tony,

There was an interesting book a few years ago by a Western Theravada teacher that I summarize here. PERHAPS Shikantaza is very much resonant of the so-called "Fourth Jhana" (the one the Buddha recommended as the ultimate path in this world) as described in the old Suttas before the Commentaries modified their interpretation. I have written about this before.

A book that should be mentioned is the recent "The Experience of Samadhi" by Richard Shankman, a survey of historical and modern Theravadan interpretations of Samadhi and Jhana. What is particularly interesting in reading the book is the extent of disagreement and widely varied interpretations from teacher to teacher, Sri Lankan vs. Burmese vs. Thai vs. Westerners, Lineage to Lineage even in that neck of the Buddhist world. Here is a Buddhistgeeks interview the author gave ... and as he discusses, there is little agreement, either currently or in centuries past, among the South Asian traditions either about "what the Buddha taught", or at least, how to interpret "what the Buddha taught" on the subject of Jhana. In the book, he interviews about two dozen teachers in South Asian traditions, and gets about two dozen, often very dissimilar interpretations.

We continue our discussion with insight meditation teacher and author, Richard Shankman. In this episode we continue to dissect the different kinds of samadhi and their respective fruits--what in the Theravada tradition are called jhana (or "meditative absorption"). According to Shankman there are two ways of approaching the attainment of jhana, one as was taught in the original canonical texts of the Theravada, the Pali Suttas, and the other from the later commentaries on the Buddha's teachings, the Vishudimagga. As a result we get two different forms of jhana--one called Sutta jhana and the other called Vishudimagga jhana. ...

http://personallifemedia.com/guests/...chard-shankman

Richard Shankman's book makes one very interesting point that, perhaps, can be interpreted to mean that practices such as Shikantaza and the like actually cut right to the summit of Jhana practice. You see, it might perhaps be argued (from some interpretations presented in the book) that Shikantaza practice is very close to what is referred to as the "Fourth Jhana in the Suttas" ... as opposed to the highly concentrated, hyper-absorbed Visuddhimagga commentary version. The Fourth Jhana in the Pali Suttas was considered the 'summit' of Jhana practice (as the higher Jhana, No. 5 to 8, were not encouraged as a kind of otherworldly 'dead end') and appears to manifest (quoting the sutta descriptions in the book) "an abandoning of pleasure, pain, attractions/aversions, a dropping of both joy and grief", a dropping away of both rapture and bliss states, resulting in a "purity of mindfulness" and "equanimity". Combine this with the fact that, more than a "one pointed mind absorbed into a particular object", there is a "unification of mind" (described as a broader awareness around the object of meditation ... whereby the "mind itself becomes collected and unmoving, but not the objects of awareness, as mindfulness becomes lucid, effortless and unbroken" (See, for examples. pages 82-83 here))

http://books.google.co.jp/books?id=lQ_ZzFgJ1AwC&lpg=PP1&ots=Nfh_Zax84P&dq=richard%20skankman&pg=PA80#v=onepage&q&f=false

A bit of the discussion of the highest (in Buddhist Practice) "Fourth Jhana", and its emphasis on equanimity while present amid circumstances (and a dropping of bliss states), can be found on page 49.

This is very close to a description of Shikantaza, for example, as dropping all aversions and attractions, finding unification of mind, collected and unmoving, effortless and unbroken, in/as/through/not removed from the life, circumstances, complexities which surround us and are us, sitting still with what is just as it is.

But even if not, all of Buddhism is precisely the same even when radically different, very different even though always the same.

Gassho, J

SatToday

[dharmasponge]

~Thanks Jundo, that is a great book. I think its a massive aspiration for anyone to consider even managing to experience the first Jhana let alone the fourth -my understanding anyway. I can however, see the parallels.

Sat Today